That's fine, nobody says you have to think a player is great. But what are these "various stats" that show he's not a good player. Would you call Ricky Rubio a serviceable player? Lin has badly outplayed him since the All-Star break. In fact since the ASB he has a highter FG% and 3PT% than Irving, Rubio, Conley, Wall, Dragic. Are all these players only serviceable right now?
Agreed. Lin will be an above average PG for the years to come, but a star? Not on the court. But thats perfectly fine, Rockets do not expect him to be a star nor is he getting paid like one. That's why Morey's working his arse off to get us a second star.
ROFL Lin is nowhere near Wall or Irving. Theyre carrying their respective teams. Lin is playing 2nd/3rd fiddle majority of the games. Conley = Lin > Rubio/Dragic (playing on ****ty teams)
To be honest, I don't think Rubio is all that great and FG% is useless a comparison statistic. (although to be fair 3pt% is okay because it is less affected by fouls and layups/jumpshots as 2pt% is). There is really no point is doing a high level statistical analysis, because it has no value to anyone. Lin fans come armed with an army of excuses about how it is someone else's fault and Rocket fans already have a fairly objective point of view. Not to mention, the last thing this forum needs is another thread about Lin.
well, to be fair, we have no idea what lin would've done if asked to carry a team like wall or irving. we do know that when he was asked to carry his team for 7 games last year without melo and amare, he did quite well. and a handful of games this season when harden or/and parsons were out, he did pretty well in those games as well. he'll never dunk like wall or have handles like irving. does that mean he can't do what they've done if put in similar situations?
Funny how you say Lin fans are foaming at the mouth to bash the team but you also seem to be the typical Lin detractor who is just as eager to point out how mediocre he is, which is your opinion and I respect that. I can only speak for myself, but I've never said anything bad about the rest of the team or the coach. How McHale coaches and who he plays is up to him and have always been respectful of that. I feel I am fairly representative of a typical Lin fan. There are obvious trolls who pretend to be Lin fans to generate hate towards Lin and Lin fans, and they are fairly obvious to me, but unfortunately many on here take them as serious Lin fans and we all get tarred with the same brush. I personally don't have a problem with anyone calling Lin awful, average or mediocre as a player, if that's their opinion, but the obvious trolling and baiting by some Lin haters should equally be frowned upon.
Lin is currently better than rubio imo. Hes def not better than conley who IMO is a top 10 PG. his stats improved dramatically from jumping from 4th to 3rd option. ImAgine if he was a 1st option on a team?
Conley is very similar to Parker in terms of being severely underrated. Lin still has a lot to learn if he wants to reach their status. Biggest thing to start is how to contribute when you're not the primary option with the ball. Both Parker and Conley excels in finding other ways to contribute to the team other than just getting them points.
Lin has never been a 4th option. He being a "4th option" at the beginning of the year was solely on him, whether it was injury or whatnot. When he improved, thats when he got more confidence and began taking and making more shots. Lin could easily be a "2nd option" on this team IMO. He just needs to take more shots like he did yesterday against the Suns. Coaches don't decide our 2nd, 3rd or 4th option, it is on the players. The only one they decide is the first option of course with Harden. Everything else depends on who is playing the best offensively that game.
I'm talking about Conley being a 4th option pre-Gay trade and now being the third option. His points and assists have both improved and the team is better because he is more efficient.
It is interesting this thread has been dead quiet for quite long until Gogi had a better game last night. I can see the waiting has been not so easy for someone
Runs Offense when on the court Lowry 75% Dragic 90% Lin 40% (with a higher pace closer to 50%) STATS FG% /2FG% /3FG% /FT% /eFG% /TS% /FGA /3FGA /PPS /FTA Lowry 40.3% 43.6% 36.2% 79.1% 48.4% 54.4% 14.8 6.6 1.27 5.7 Dragic 44.3% 49.7% 31.9% 74.8% 49.1% 54.0% 16.8 5.1 1.25 6.1 Jeremy 44.4% 48.5% 34.0% 79.0% 49.2% 54.0% 16.3 4.6 1.23 5.0 Avg. PG 43.3% 46.3% 36.7% 81.5% 49.1% 53.3% 17.1 5.4 1.18 4.2 all 3 are very close , but Lin is the youngest Dragic plays well considering he has nothing to work with in Phoenix Lowry is effective in his reduced role , but plays with 2 of the worst ineffective chuckers Raptor Pace: 90.3 (24th of 30) Suns Pace: 93.4 (10th of 30) Rockets Pace: 96.2 (1st of 30) OWS- Individual Offensive ability to bring Wins to your Team(better PER ,More effective shooting better passing and less turnover bring this up per game) DWS- Individual Defensive ability to bring wins to your team( against effective shooting, steals, blocks and defensive rate bring this up) example Harden vs Memphis held his man to 9 points and got 2 steals and 2 blocks , his DWS went up .2 Lowry OWS 3.4 DWS 2.0 WS 5.4 Dragic OWS 4.1 DWS 1.7 WS 5.8 Lin OWS 3.0- Low considering the pace we Play DWS 2.4- good considering the pace we play WS 5.4 to understand how telling WS is, look at Rudy gay L.James and M.Jordan Gay OWS -0.2 Ineffective chucker DWS 3.9 but plays defense L.James OWS 14.6 DWS 4.7 WS 19.3 M.Jordan(95-96 season)some rules were different 17 years ago OWS 14.2 DWS 6.2 WS 20.4 Lowry, Lin and Dragic are basically all the same player, all 3 bring close to the same effective value to their team
yup. agree. and off the ball, he needs to move and play like he wants to be the 2nd option. go to the ball, move into the passing window, pull the trigger when you catch the ball, etc... i believe that as a PG, he's still very mindful about how many shots he takes vs. other teammates.
While your point is valid, the "Lin we are trying to win" command may also play some role here I think.
We know what he has done when asked to carry the team. In the 4 games that Harden has not played. Lin has averaged 22 pts. and 7 assists playing 3 of 4 against top 10 defenses. The problem is that it's not a large sample.
Not too shabby to be compared to 6th year Conley only after your first real season. I like Conley's game. Having said that, Lin's upside might be higher (if put take Conley out and put Lin in). Anyone who can't see that either have myopia or have been drinking the media koolaid. If you watch his games, you can literally "feel" the difference when he's handling the ball.
Lin during April, most important month of the year (8 games) 18ppg, 6.8assists, 2.6 TOs (2.6 to 1) 2.9boards, 57.2% TS...very good for a guard), #10 on efficiency for a PG for the month at 17.6, 5-3 W/L I would say that production is damn good for an 24yr old, 8mil/yr PG who only got a chance to play THE Pg for 2 games...
It's crazy some of you guys are STILL trying to convince people here that Lin is more than just a mediocre PG. Should just wait and have patience, and give people time. Spiegal, for example, used to be adamant that Lin sucked and was not worthy of his contract and starting role; now that has changed. C'mon fellow 12ers, just let it go!
