ClutchFans Game Thread: Grizzlies @ Rockets 4/12/2013

I went to a basketball game and a rugby match broke out.

 

I wonder if Carmelo and Harden were on the same team who would take the last shot?

 

Not that they'd ever be on the same team, but I'd have to say Melo. I forgot the stat, but I think it was either last season or this season tha Melo scored more clutch and game winners than anybody in the league. I don't have the source or stats to back that up though..

 

Ok I am going to address your points directly but keep in mind you didn't have much of a comeback to my in depth analysis of comparing harden to those other star players. #1. Harden hasn't had time to develop. Ok fine this is first year where he's the focal point. But to just blatantly say he needs more time is also short sighted. He's played 4 years in the league, he was a top 5 pick and he's been averaged 25-30 minutes a night in OKC. He showed himself to be a good player. Keep in mind, he was playing against backups with durant and westbrook resting/taking attention away from him. The jury is still out on this I suppose, but ask yourself truthfully, is he more likely to become a ginobili type player (off the bench, 2nd/3rd best player) or a true franchise guy? I guess according to you, you want to give him more time to see if he can somehow become the next dwade. Fine.
#2 He hasn't played in d'antoni's system? You have got to be kidding me right? You've shown yourself to be a semi competent blogger and you pull this nonsense? James Harden is the de facto point guard on Houston! His usage rate is among the highest in the league. The rockets push the tempo at every opportunity. The only way he gets more opportunities and touches is if the game is 5 quarters long!
#3 he's asked to carry the offense? There is a difference between leading an offense and just taking a ton of shots. Did you not notice that when Harden is injured, the rockets play better team basketball, more ball movement, more even shot distribution and guys like greg smith really get a chance to shine. Truly great offensive players, find a strong balance between scoring efficiently and passing, while playing off the ball to fit into an offense rather than dominating the ball at all times. As a college player myself, we all know what a great player looks like. You would also think that having fit himself so nicely into the OKC system that he could leverage that experience into fitting himself into the houston half court offense as well. Again, I will meet you halfway, the coaching has been terrible, I wouldn't be surprised if this is what Mchale draws up and asks him to do.

So I hope I have addressed your points, I can't remember what the previous posts were, but at the same time, you need to also give valid replies to my points instead of just saying it's "pointless to argue". That really shows you have no counter. As for being a Lin fan, that wasn't it at all. In fact, I was going to say that Harden should learn from Chandler Parson's game, which is to work off the ball, shoot open shots off pin downs and curls and attack the basket when open. What Parsons has shown has been very impressive. Integrating himself within the offensive system but can also be the featured guy at times. He has, in some ways, been the more effective player than Harden.

 

Response

No, not the same guy.

 

Response

I think it's fair to say no one argues that Harden should not have taken the last shot; he had a wide open relatively short jumper which just missed. You can't blame Harden for that shot because it was a good shot to take. Now, there were several possessions before that where a better play was to pass to Lin who was wide open. No one should blame any Rockets player for missing decent shots. All I know is if Lin had the ball with the time running out and Harden, Parsons, Garcia or Delfino was open, Lin would have passed the ball. I actually think Lin over passes sometimes even when he should take shots, but I think you are talking about two players with two different mentalities. Also, it's clear to me Mac will live or die with Harden taking shots. Therefore, I don't blame Harden at all for thinking he has to take the shot and be the hero.

Another thing is I would have liked to see someone take a 3 and try to win instead of tying the game. It should have been either a 3 or an easy lay-up to tie. Taking a mid-range jumper to tie the game was not a good play IMO.

For those saying without Harden Rockets would not be making playoff, I am not sure. The reason I say that is Celtics made the playoff without Rondo, and with the money being paid to Harden, Rockets might have gotten another player who doesn't score as many points but play a better D.

I wonder if Lin was pissed that he didn't get the ball? I wonder what Parsons would have thought if he were in Lin's place.

 

Response

Whoever is more open, I would think, because if one guy didn't pass when the other guy was open, I am sure one guy would be b****ing. Also, with these two guys, the coach would not be able to favor one guy over the other.

 

Response

I actually noticed Harden play D hard. I was even proud that he got mad at the refs.

 

great post man! using facts and logic to back up your observations. Refreshing!!

 

Missed the game, any highlights vids?

 

If we keep playing like this, we'll end up the 8th seed and Lakers will overtake us for the 7th (Without Kobe). Not that it matters, as we aren't expected to win any 1st round playoff series, but it's a serious blow to the image and turnaround of this team.

 

Highlights...no Blaiyan or Gerard vid.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/80kJsAcpfvw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

Skip to 5:23.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TONGqTYXfsA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

We are definitely better with Harden than without him. But, I'm not sure by how many games.

Yes, picking the 2 best games out of 80 can make any team look good. But, looking at all four games that Harden hasn't played in isn't the same as cherry picking the best games.

Rockets went 2-2 going against good teams in 3 of the 4 games. In the 2 losses, one they lost in overtime against the Spurs. The other they lost by 10 to the Clippers on the 2nd night of a back to back road trip. All 4 games they played better than the experts expected them to.

Obviously it's a small sample, but still interesting.

 

Playing against backups. Do you realize that backups play starters on other teams. Patrick Bevrely, Garcia, Delfino, Anderson, and even TJones played against starters. I feel like you think Westbrook is better than Harden which IMO is wrong. Harden is a top 10 (arguably top 5) in this league and you question whether he is true star. The guy is a juggernaught offensively and, when he wants to, is solid defensively. Harden also gets the most touches because he is the BEST player on the team. You have only seen 4 games without James Harden. One of them, i admit, was very impressive against the clippers but to imply the Rockets are better with him off the court is naive. James Harden averages 6 assist a game and has shown to be a more than willing passer. One of Greg Smith's best games were against the Lakers and Harden was in that game. OMG Harden attacks the basket all the time lol and he can shoot outside.

 

This happens all the time.

Noticed how you didn't point out that the Clipper win was their fourth game in five nights, all on the road.

 

It was a back-to-back for us as well, and the 3rd game in 4 nights...though their starters played longer, and more intensely the previous night against the Spurs...doesn't mean that both teams weren't tired though...

 

Boston still has a great collective of players headed by Paul Pierce on offence and KG on defense. The team has great veteran presence.

I do not believe we would have gotten to the playoffs with Jeremy as our best player. When James was playing for OKC, he got a taste of what would come with double teams pretty much every game. He learned how to manipulate them to get a desired result (not to the point where he has this year but still it shows something). Now with the small sample size of what happens when James is off the floor and Lin is the one regulating everything. When he is doubled everything goes downhill. The Miami game was a big one. They made him look lost out there, even just bringing the ball up. I'm not saying it couldn't happen. It is just unreasonable to me. I don't think we would have been the worst team in the West also.

 

The Celtics made the playoffs without Rondo in the East. Just like the Bulls did it without Rose. That wouldn't happen in the West. Neither these Bulls nor these Celtics would be top 8 in the west.

 

REPPPED BIG TIME!