I'm gonna go ahead and assume, based on what youve posted, you're Muslim (pleas correct me if I'm wrong, I mean no offense). If so, im pretty sure this discussion will lead nowhere. youre belief is that Jesus was a follower of God, and christians believe he was the Son of God. again, God with us. Matthew 16:13-20 is scriptural evidence for Christians in this belief. Jesus asks his disciples who they think he is, to which Peter answers 'you are the son of God.'. It is then when Jesus blesses Peter for his answer, and tells him that His father in Heaven revealed that to him. Of course, you have your beliefs in the role of Jesus, but for Christians, his teachings, actions, and completing of prophecies are evidence to declare him the Messiah.
I'd say the real origins of Christianity was hijacked by the power hungry, who modified many aspects of it and even interpolated some verses and parts of the Bible (such as Revelation 20:2 not to mention the forgery done on Josephus' work "proving" Jesus lived). An alternate way to look at it versus what is taught is that Jesus incarnated here to set an example for people to follow and not only preached a message of unconditional love but literally lived his life that way (thoughts, words, the way he treated people, dietary habits, how he returned hatred with love and forgiveness, etc...) and stood up to people who didn't want to give up their power over people, even though he knew it meant torture and death. Again, he set an example for people to follow, not for people to worship his memory in a cult of personality. Those power hungry people, meanwhile, distorted his story and set up a theology where they could keep people under a stable state of mind under their control. Is it any wonder, as I posted earlier in this thread, most Christians are stuck in this circle? Spoiler If people spend their lives feeling like all they have to do is just pray for forgiveness and let an outer savior come and rescue them, then there's not much incentive to grow spiritually and in truth follow his path. As a matter of fact, they think they can be very sinful while they're young only to turn around and at the snap of a finger become holy when they get older (I used to follow that mentality) I broke the circle in the spoiler by realizing it's possible for some of the Bible to be true but that it's not infallible. It doesn't mean there isn't value to be found in the Bible but at a certain point there needs to be room for growth and you can only grow so much in mainstream Christianity because there is a symbolic floor (the beginning of the Bible) and a symbolic ceiling (the end of the Bible). That really goes for any religion fully reliant on holy books from centuries ago that spawn ideologies that can't be changed. It's like being stuck in elementary school your whole life. I'm sure all the books and teachings are almost all if not completely true but isn't there a higher understanding? As a matter of fact, there is, which is why we go to middle/high school, on to college and then some (such as biologists) keep researching their whole life. And it's why I find the back and forth tennis match of debate on this subject so funny (not to say I'm right, just a deep thinker).
There are more than one religion that has the beliefs you presented so far. Do you believe that Jesus died on the cross? Did Jesus have an earthly father? Was his mom impregnated by Joseph to form Jesus? If you answer those two questions, I might be able to safely guess what religion you are an adherent of.
No im not a Muslim. Christians are confused of course Jesus is the son of god, the same way that we are all gods children.
Well that's where the doctrine of the virgin birth comes in. Jesus, according to the bible, has no human father. He does indeed have a human mother, to which is a necessary factor in atonement of a persons sin. And with the miracles recorded in the Bible, it's difficult to say that Jesus was simply gods children in the way that we are. He had a certain divinity, which is His status as God, the same God of Abraham. Hope I'm explaining the doctrine in a clear way.
Bob Christianity will always be about man not god. Let me give you an example why would the son of god turn water into wine? Water cleanses everything, water is pure while alcohol is a poison. Wouldn't a more appropriate miracle be turning poison aka alcohol into water?
This again is also a misrepresentation lol. Ill go ahead and say Christianity has been distorted in the past centuries by some pastors and churches to fit a more desirable attraction to man, but an actual Christian, one who follows the actual teachings of Jesus, knows that it's always been about God. Jesus countless times gives the glory to his father, he asks God to complete the will of The Lord and not man, and seeks to glorify god. You taking one miracle where wine is made ( which is a healthy drink when not abused ) and saying it shows selfishness is just wrong.
Let me be honest with you. I will stop being politically correct. Christianity is Satan's deception. Jesus was gods most trusted and loyal follower. He did amazing things and people followed him. The deception is that Jesus who was the greatest man who ever lived was not a man and was a really a god. The Bible tells us that man is weak, a man is not capable of fathering a child as great as Jesus. The devil is the ultimate master of deception. You can only get to god through Jesus, you must pray to jesus, this is the devil using Jesus as a barrier to keep us away from god.
How is it wrong? How is not selfish? Turning water into a poison is not righteous. Turning poison into water is.the reason why I use this as an example is that Christianity is a grand deception.
This is funny, because I have a different view about this story, then most. But first I present some of the reason why in a book from 1874, that you can read for free. link
Here's the thing though, if it truly was a barrier to get to God, it wouldn't a) preach that Jesus was the way TO GET TO God and b) invest in millions of goodhearted missionaries who risks their lives going to the most exotic and isolated places of the world to attempt people TO GET TO God. I respect your opinion, but The great commission that Jesus had for us was preaching to ends of the earth for ALL people (John 3:16) to have a relationship with God. I think you have this incorrect view that Christians don't even think of God. Christianity preaches that Jesus died for our sins, and because of that, a relationship with God is possible. Now if I were the devil, I probably wouldn't use a barrier that let's people have a relationship with God lol. I'd probably use Kim Kardashian or something, who doesn't want a piece of that?!
In a nutshell, the passage that Jesus is discussed is awkwardly positioned in his work, Testimonium Flavianum, situated between two unrelated passages and they mention every thing Jesus, according to the theology is said to have done. All in barely a paragraph, you'd think Jesus (even if he wasn't thought of as a big deal) should have been the subject to a significant portion of the text beyond just a very specific and descriptive paragraph. If Jesus lived (and for reasons I won't get into here, I still think he did), I'm confident it was closer to how I described than as we're generally taught. Spoiler http://www.truthbeknown.com/josephus.htm ""Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works,--a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day." " I mean seriously, all of this in only a few sentences? Why would he believe something that seemed so outrageous? If you were a historian and you heard wild stories about me literally running through brick walls, teleporting and doing all kinds of reasonably impossible feats, wouldn't you at least be skeptical about it? Wouldn't you at least phrase it in a way that would say "he was said to have _____ by his followers and witnesses?" And wouldn't you find out as much as you could about such miraculous events and that person?
No matter what the devil does and no matter what anybody believes in we all have a relationship with god whether we understand it or not. Christians might think about god but they pray to Jesus. Christians also preach that if you don't believe in Jesus you wind up in hell. Doesn't that sound like something pure evil would preach?
Of course the devil would choose that tactic, think about it. Its the ultimate deception, the devil is telling you that you can get to god through Jesus. The devil understands that we all are searching for god so he promises you god through Jesus which stops you from ever getting to god.
Idk, I guess you'd have to define relationship to me, cause I've met loads of people who simply don't care for any religion, they rather focus their energy elsewhere. I don't think they have a relationship with God. And yes, I pray to God, like all other true Christians. Again, you're generalizing from some sort of faux Christian group. And yeah, there is such a thing as hell. But in all honesty, pure evil wouldn't preach that there was a way out of it. If you think about it, anyone who compares themselves to a perfect God falls short of His glory. In theory, why the heck would God even bother saving anyone who is a sinner (which is all of us). But because of His grace, we are able to escape hell. I won't lie, the idea of condemning something to Hell is a scary idea. But in Jeremiah, it reads that His ways are not our ways, His ways are higher than ours. And in that, I find rest. I can't explain everything God has in store for me or you, no one can. But if anything, I think it teaches me how big God is and how small I am.
I really do think you've been terribly informed on the doctrines of Christianity dude. I have a relationship with God because of crucifixion of Jesus. Simple as that. The only barrier that there was was sin, which has been answered for. Any who, I'm sleepy, gotta work tomorrow. I shall sleep, good chat bro
You don't have to care about religion or put energy in it to have a relationship with god,. Remember god works in mysterious ways. When I knew nothing of God he was always with me. Whether I knew him or not he was always with me and with all of us. I don't believe that god is as simple as the Bible portrays him. God is perfect he realizes that people are not perfect and I believe that god is so great that he will even forgive us for not believing in him. Once again we are his children and if we are good to each other and our selves god will always be accepting of us because he is our father and his love is unconditional. I believe that hell, eternal damnation is the last resort for god not his go to option.
