^ This is what I've been talking about. People who think we gave up a bag of chips for Robinson are just blind haters.
What tangible benefit for the future of this franchise (contention status within the next 2 years, hopefully) does keeping Patterson provide in favor of acquiring younger talent with upside?
Robinson can't score Patterson can't rebound. Patterson has a year before he hits free agency. Rockets will not win a championship within this time. The lose of Patterson has not prevented Rockets from making the playoffs. Robinson has three years after this on his contract. While Robinson is not worth the 5 pick, he was worth a year and 1/3 worth of Patterson even with as disappointing as he has been. I expected his FG% would rise with Rockets (and I still do somewhat before season is out if he gets PT). I also expected him to rebound better on defensive end than he has been. If the Rockets want Patterson, they can always use the MLE to try to reacquire him. I highly doubt the Rockets can fit a re-signed Patterson, Lin, Asik under luxury tax threshold with the maximum contracts. Patterson for a year and a third just isn't worth much. Teams know Rockets won't re-sign him. Teams that would want him know don't have what Rockets want with the exception of Sacramento.
If Robinson is just a trade asset then he is a good one. But it will have to be next season if he truly is a bust because at this point he's just a sweetner. Something to throw on the end of a deal but at the same time a asset another team may think they can fix him. Patterson was a good player for the rockets and he'll be in this league a long time. He would be perfect coming off the bench for a true contending team. We are not there yet and it's better to take a wild shot at Robinson than to hang on to Pat IMO because he's likely gone when he expires any way. Who knows what Robinson can become since he's a high ceiling low floor guy but again, if his work ethic is what ex teammates and coaches say it is and what our own coaches say it is then eventually he'll overcome this and turn things around. But PPat is good enough for a team to over pay him, and all it takes is one team (Like the Kings...) to really like a player to over pay him.
Rockets have a better record POST-TRADE. That all that counts for me. Rockets are NOT losing cuz of the trade ( Patterson = Rockets "Rudy Gay", addition by subtraction ) Actually it may NOT be cuz of moving Patterson out and T-Rob in. It could be the other 14 players stepping up, or just an easier schedule. And Patterson is the better fit in Rockets scheme. But the bottom line is still better. Which makes you NOT MISS the player that much.
I understand the contract issues. (BTW, Robinson is not cheap. He's the #5 pick. If he doesn't pan out, he could be a dead weight, kind of like Thabeet was.) What I was pointing out was posters like CXbby trying to trash Patterson as "dead body" or "garbage" or something to the same effect just to prop up the trade. You don't have to say Patterson is a useless player to argue for the validity of the trade. Like I said countless time, this trade is probably not worth it for basketball reasons alone, unless Robinson turns out to be a borderline star. I also believe that Morey is smart. So Robinson is probably acquired as asset value, not because Morey believes he will likely become a better player than Patterson.
Um. You absolutely have to say Patterson is a useless player to validate the trade if that is the crux to what validates the trade. You can also say it because it is the simple truth. We didn't give up Hakeem Olajuwan here for Robinson. We didn't give up Moses Malone. Hell, we didn't even give up an impact player like Chuck Hayes. We gave up Patrick Patterson, who under objective measurements like RAPM was the worst player in our rotation along with Toney Douglas. We gave up Patrick Patterson, who was a net negative in the lineups when he was here, and the same lineups became overwhelmingly positive when we swapped him out for a couple of rookies since the trade. We gave up Patrick Patterson, who CAN'T GET OFF THE BENCH FOR THE SACROMENTO KINGS. Who can barely averages 20 minutes for one of the worst teams in the league. We gave up Patrick Patterson, who we were never going to resign after his contract was up. And no team would have given a second round pick for, since his contract was ending. I'm sorry for calling an irrelevant, ineffective, useless player for what he is. Because, that is exactly what he is. And that has nothing to do with Thomas Robinson. That has nothing to do with Daryl Morey. That has nothing to do with the Houston Rockets. That has nothing to do with the trade. That's just Patrick Patterson.
Hugely disagree. Worst case from the deal is that the Rockets might be able to acquire something better for Patterson next season, Robinson busts, and Rockets exercise team options. Maybe 2-4 regular season losses over a year and a third. Robinson most likely can make up those wins later in career with just learning increased shot selection and focusing energy on defense. Now if he becomes a decent rotational big, he helps much more than 2-4 games.
I am pretty sure Morey isn't punting next season-- in fact, Plan A for the team is likely pursuing an elite free agent, the kind that would bring team into title contention. If so, then the team will need a good role player more than some prospect with a remote chance of contributing. The fact is Robinson's shooting and overall performance has not risen with the Rockets, so it isn't just being on a bad team that made him inefficient. In fact, out of 289 players who entered the league as rookies at age 21 or above and played 600 minutes as rookies since the year 2000, Robinson's rookie year TS% and ORtg each rank in the 260-270 range. Very few guys whose offensive ineptness was at his level really turned out to be useful players.
When DMo did well when he got his first couple starts, people say we don't miss Patterson because of DMo. When DMo struggled and Smith started and did well, people say we don't miss Patterson because of Smith. When Smith becomes foul prone as a starter and neither DMo not Robinson looked reliable enough and Jones has one good game, people now say we don't miss Patterson because of Jones. It is good that each of these guys has had a couple good games, but being a competent rotation player requires more. Lets wait til Jones has, say, 3 good games out of every 4 or so before we declare him the winner of the PF battle. You people have crowned several false messiahs this season already.
He is the only good part of the deal. I don't think it is worth giving up Patterson and taking on $3.5M in bad contracts for 2013-14 just to rent Garcia for half a season.
^^That's the point. Someone will be there to give us whatever little it was that Pat gave us. Except the people contributing now are younger and can grow further.
Patterson is a broke man's Chuck Person (or his Spurs twilight days incarnation). Always was, always will be. He can be a very useful piece of the bench, but an undersized 4 that doesn't mix it up in the blocks or rebounds just doesn't cut it as a starter. Sometimes you need to just cut guys loose in this league and move on. Keep sifting until you find your man and stick with him. Morris and Patterson weren't the answers and Morey moved on. Maybe that won't be Motiejunas, maybe that won't be Robinson, maybe that won't be Jones. But it's better that the team keep looking and plugging guys in than holding on to subpar choices and staying there. And the troll patrol continues to be obnoxious. Royce White is 80-90% going to be a bust. Robinson's current outlook so far is much better than Marcus Morris' was as a rookie, and compares favorably with Chuck Hayes. His FG% and scoring efficiency are poor, but he rebounds like a demon, is highly active on the court, and is a hard worker behind the scenes. When Chuck came into the league, his offense was downright embarrassing. I'll give the hard workers that are blessed with athleticism and can do at least one thing well all the chances in the world as they start out in the league. And whether or not I agree with specific trades, 99.9% of my energy as a fan is going to go into rooting for my team to win. Go Rockets.
When has Patterson had 3 out of every 4 good games in a row, after his rookie season? He certainly hasn't been setting the world on fire in Sacramento either.
Thank goodness we had your messiah around for that stretch in January where we lost 8 of 9 games so he could contribute 4.9 points and 3.55 rebounds.
The young players-- Jones, DMo, Smith would have each gotten their shots at minute anyway since Morris was gone. They also would have a chance to beat out Patterson for a starting spot either now or next year if they indeed are any good. They also have not replaced Pat-- so far DMo lost his spot after teams scouted him and took advantage of his weaknesses, Smith gets into foul trouble as a starter and we'll see if his string if good games lasts longer than DMo's, Jones is being declared a good replacement after 1 game. Robinson has played himself out of the rotation entirely. Even if you can replace Patterson it doesn't make the trade a good one-- Morey should have traded Pat for something better than Robinson, like a 2nd round pick who at least wont kill our cap space. Seems to be a simple enough concept, the trade really isn't about any of the existing young PFs on the roster, it's about Patterson and Robinson. The reason why it is a bad trade is that Patterson is super great, it is that Robinson hasn't show anything in the NBA that suggests that he will become a good player any time soon.
