It isnt just this board, it is in general. It is very debatable, but I would take Robinson over Duncan.
I have qualms calling Robinson a better regular season player than Hakeem. More efficient offensive player? Sure. Better scorer? Sure. But Hakeem was a better defender, rebounder, and shot blocker which are things I want from my center. And even if you think Robinson was the better regular season player I think it is hard to say that it wasn't close which is the reason I brought up the two in the first place.
So two season makes him more productive for his career? Robinson had two really good season where he averaged 29 for one and 27 for another but never averaged more than 25 in any other season. Hakeem had two season of 27 and two seasons of 26. Robinson also had two good assist years in which he averaged 3.7 and 4.8 but then only had one more season in which he averaged 3. Hakeem averaged over 3 assists for 6 straight seasons. The career numbers are Hakeem 21.8/2.5 Robinson 21.1/2.5 The offensive production numbers are just about equal.
Better regular season PLAYER? Ehh those Spurs teams won a lot of games... so maybe... I don't like seperating it out.... to me it is simple, Olajuwon was the better overall player when you consider everything.
Robinson's career regular season rebound and block %: 17.3, 5.7 Hakeem's: 17.2, 5.4 They were pretty much identical in that respect during the regular season. I hate to be the guy arguing against Hakeem on Clutchfans but this is strictly a discussion of regular seasons. Again, Hakeem is one of the greatest play-off performer ever where Robinson shrunk so I will take Hakeem ten times out of ten as a player.
Why are you using averages? You just told me that efficiency and productivity are separate things and should be separated. But now you are taking productivity over a defined unit of time to make this argument...that sounds a lot like efficiency to me. That confusion aside, all I know is that David Robinson scored more points at his peak and passed out a lot more assists , and did both at a more efficient rate. Somebody asked whether or not Robinson should be considered a better player than Olajuwon because he had a higher PER - he shoudl definitely be considred to have been a superior offensive player at his peak during the regular season, in view of the facts noted above. Period.
I think your confusion is from you not using words properly. The word you are looking for is consistency and not efficiently. Hakeem was consistently just as or more productive than David Robinson was over the course of their careers. The peak scoring and assists years are just a combination of two years in a long career played by Robinson. Using just those two to say he was more productive is a bit of a stretch. That somebody was me and i asked if Robinson should be considered a much better player based on PER. Peak during one or two seasons was never something I was debating.
No, that's exactly what we were debating. I said: And you tried to apply it to Hakeem vs Robinson. And if you want to talk about peak reg. season, Robinson was better than Hakeem and it's not very close. The only real difference there is that Hakeem shone in playoffs and Robinson wilted. Which is a BIG difference (and as someone posted above, totally quantifiable by PER). But this difference doesn't apply to Kobe vs. Wade; Wade has a superior regular season, playoffs, and Finals per to Kobe both peak and career. Kobe has had the longer career and better teammates. So it depends on what you value. If I'm going for a title and can take one of them for a year, I take peak Wade and it's not close. In fact, there are about 20 guys I take over peak Kobe.
Our argument and his argument were completely different. There were 7 Robinson seasons with higher PERs than Hakeem ever had. He interjected saying that Robinson was a more productive regular season player than Hakeem which I disagreed with. There was never any discussion of peak for Robinson and like I said earlier I referenced 7 Robinson seasons.
The statement above is a semantic trainwreck. Perhaps you should take up Italian. I heard Kobe speaks it fluently, and uses it non-gratuitously with his teammates.
So rebounds, steals and blocks don't count? I put Hakeem's 24.3 pts 14 rbs 2.9 ast 4.6 blks 2.1 stl season up against any season David Robinson ever had.
But how can one use Kobe having more talent surrounding him (in 09)as a knock but not mention the superior talent guys like Jordan/Lebron had? The Celtics had the best team talent wise in 09, not the Lakers. The 09 Lakers in no way math up with the Jordan Bulls, Lebron's Heat, Magic's Lakers or Bird's Celtics. So the fact is Kobe won with less talent AFTER going through a rebuilding process. Its equivalent to Jordan winning 6 rings with Pippen then the Bulls trade everybody and Jordan winning 2 more rings with totally different and less talented team. Kobe's top 5-8 ever. People should be ashamed putting players like Bird & Jerry West in front of Kobe lol
It's not easy to type on a phone but that doesn't change the fact that you were confusing efficiency and consistency with each other.
No, nothing I mentioned had anything to do with consistency under any commonly-understood definition of the term.
1) The Celtics had the best team when healthy, but KG didn't play in the playoffs. 2) Jordan led threepeats that were essentially two different teams. Pippen was a constant, yes, but, c'mon Kobe had Shaq and the Odom/Gasol/Bynum. Both the Bulls and Lakers were the most talented teams entering the playoffs every year they won. 3) I didn't watch Jerry West but Bird was a much better player than Kobe. His teams actually did worse when he missed games, unlike Kobe. Kobe has the longer career, so it depends what you value.
Efficient - productive of desired effects; especially : productive without waste <an efficient worker> Consistent - marked by harmony, regularity, or steady continuity : free from variation or contradiction <a consistent style in painting> You don't see how Hakeem was consistent in putting up numbers better or similar to Robinson from a production standpoint.
I don't see? No. I don't care whether that statement is true or false because it is of no import to the subject at hand - that Robinson at his peak was a superior offensive player during the regular season than Olajuwon.
