Well, 3x in his career Wade has had a PER that's better than Kobe's career-best, and, in fact, during Wade's five peak years his PER average was comparable to Kobe's career-best. I know that PER isn't the end-all but it's a very objective stat that is better than the subjective nature of wins (based on teammates) and things like "clutchness".
Wade is playing like a stud this season. Not like a top 5 player, but a stud nonetheless. Last season Wade was not playing like a stud, especially in the playoffs. However, he was hurt. But folks trying to sell LeBron as winning last year with a stud Wade and Bosh (also injured) really are being misleading. In the 4 seasons prior to LeBron coming to Miami, Wade wasn't playing like a top 5 guy then either. If anything, this season playing off of LeBron would be the one random season for Wade. But to his credit, he is also as healthy as he has been in years.
David Robinson had 7 years that were higher than Hakeem's highest PER year. So by your logic Robinson was much better than Hakeem.
Wade had plenty of stud games in the playoffs last year. Was he consistent throughout? No. But you don't have to win every playoff game to win it all. Wade was bad at the beginning of the Pacer series but was a monster for the last 3 games. He played well in all but 1 one of the wins against Boston. He also played really well or good in 3 of the 4 finals wins. For a guy that was second fiddle he was doing quite a bit.
I know we're on a Rockets board and of course Hakeem is a legend, but people vastly underrate Robinson too. That guy was a hell of a player. He took a big hit for his playoff performances whereas Hakeem has a rep for being a playoff star. But, going back to the topic at hand, it's not like Kobe is some kind of great playoff performer since he's choked in the Finals worse than DRob. And Wade had probably the all-time greatest Finals performance in 2006.
I'm not saying prime Wade wasn't better. That's very debatable. I just don't agree that it's not close.
He was definitely a more productive player than Hakeem on offense especially during the regular season.
Not really. Robinson top 5 scoring years - 29.8, 27.6, 25.6, 25, 24.3 Hakeem top 5 scoring years - 27.8, 27.3, 26.9, 26.1, 24.8
Kobe has got no shame. This egomaniac dismantled a potential dynasty because he wanted to do it like MJ, winning without riding the coattails of a dominant big man. He failed. Poor Kobe sacrificing his empty stats for a meagre return of three rings. No wonder his stans are so annoying.
I have no qualms saying David Robinson was a superior regular season player than Hakeem. But look at this: Hakeem career play-off PER - 25.7 Robinson career play-off PER - 23.0 They're both all time greats but Hakeem was one of very few players who actually had a higher PER in the playoffs than the regular season. To me this is special, because you play much tougher competition in the playoffs a series at a time (this is significant because opponents should be adjusting to stop you specifically if you're clear superstar). Here's what I posted in another thread: <table class="tableizer-table"><tr class="tableizer-firstrow"><th>Rk</th><th>Player</th><th>Regular Season PER</th><th></th><th>Rk</th><th>Player</th><th>Playoffs PER</th></tr><tr><td>1</td><td>Michael Jordan*</td><td>27.9</td><td></td><td>1</td><td>Michael Jordan*</td><td>28.6</td></tr><tr><td>2</td><td>LeBron James</td><td>27.5</td><td></td><td>2</td><td>LeBron James</td><td>27.1</td></tr><tr><td>3</td><td>Shaquille O'Neal</td><td>26.4</td><td></td><td>3</td><td>Shaquille O'Neal</td><td>26.1</td></tr><tr><td>4</td><td>David Robinson*</td><td>26.2</td><td></td><td>4</td><td>Hakeem Olajuwon*</td><td>25.7</td></tr><tr><td>5</td><td>Dwyane Wade</td><td>25.6</td><td></td><td>5</td><td>Tim Duncan</td><td>25.3</td></tr><tr><td>6</td><td>Chris Paul</td><td>25.5</td><td></td><td>6</td><td>Dirk Nowitzki</td><td>24.7</td></tr><tr><td>7</td><td>Tim Duncan</td><td>24.8</td><td></td><td>7</td><td>Charles Barkley*</td><td>24.2</td></tr><tr><td>8</td><td>Charles Barkley*</td><td>24.6</td><td></td><td>8</td><td>Dwyane Wade</td><td>24.1</td></tr><tr><td>9</td><td>Magic Johnson*</td><td>24.1</td><td></td><td>9</td><td>Magic Johnson*</td><td>23</td></tr><tr><td>10</td><td>Karl Malone*</td><td>23.9</td><td></td><td>10</td><td>David Robinson*</td><td>23</td></tr><tr><td>11</td><td>Hakeem Olajuwon*</td><td>23.6</td><td></td><td>11</td><td>Kobe Bryant</td><td>22.4</td></tr><tr><td>12</td><td>Larry Bird*</td><td>23.5</td><td></td><td>12</td><td>Kevin Garnett</td><td>21.5</td></tr><tr><td>13</td><td>Dirk Nowitzki</td><td>23.5</td><td></td><td>13</td><td>Larry Bird*</td><td>21.4</td></tr><tr><td>14</td><td>Kobe Bryant</td><td>23.4</td><td></td><td>14</td><td>Karl Malone*</td><td>21.1</td></tr><tr><td>15</td><td>Kevin Garnett</td><td>23.2</td><td></td><td>15</td><td>Pau Gasol</td><td>20.9</td></tr><tr><td>16</td><td>Julius Erving*</td><td>22.4</td><td></td><td>16</td><td>Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*</td><td>20.8</td></tr><tr><td>17</td><td>Moses Malone*</td><td>22.4</td><td></td><td>17</td><td>Shawn Kemp</td><td>20.5</td></tr><tr><td>18</td><td>Dwight Howard</td><td>22.3</td><td></td><td>18</td><td>Manu Ginobili</td><td>20.2</td></tr><tr><td>19</td><td>Amare Stoudemire</td><td>22.2</td><td></td><td>19</td><td>Steve Nash</td><td>19.9</td></tr><tr><td>20</td><td>Adrian Dantley*</td><td>22.1</td><td></td><td>20</td><td>John Stockton*</td><td>19.8</td></tr></table> Only four "All-time greats" have higher PER's in the playoffs - Jordan, Hakeem, Duncan, and Dirk.
Everything he's done has been forced. He's been the most fake and insecure superstar i've ever seen. The MJ tounge, the iverson flex, the MJ jump and throwing up how many rings he's got, the mj jersey bite with his hands on his shorts,the mj fist pump, mjs signature moves. When t-mac made the leg sleeve popular, kobe busted out the leg sleeve. Now he does jaw jutting thing and he thinks its gonna be his Mj tongue equivalent. Who all of a sudden in their 30's starts that habit? He obviously sits there in the mirror at home trying to come up with his own things to make him look cool as if kids will start doing it in the parks to be like him.
YA RLY Robinson at his peak during the regular season was not only a more efficient scorer, but he racked up assists at a higher rate. Robinson top 3 ORTG 120, 120 119 Hakeem 114, 113, 112 Robinson OWS - 13.3 10.7 11.1 Hakeem 7.9 6.4. 5.3 it's really not even close - use whatever measure you want.
David Robinson was a very consistent offensive player and for a 5-8 year span was the best offensive center in the NBA during the regular season. He was a machine, especially against inferior players. Olajuwon was the superior defender (possibly the best defender in NBA history), and his offense fluctuated and although he was very good at it, was not especially offensively motivated. Now, come crunch time and the playoffs, Olajuwon became an absolute beast and Robinson took it down a notch. Having said that, David Robinson is one of the most under rated players in NBA history. He isnt as good as Olajuwon, but I would argue that he was better than Tim Duncan and light years better than Dwight Howard.
Production and efficiency are two different things. It should be obvious by looking at PER that Robinson was more efficient.
Robinson and Hakeem were neck and neck as best centers of the era until Hakeem methodically neutered him (and everyone else) in the playoffs. I don't see Robinson mentoring today's greats.
Ah, so it's total #'s . Fine, David Robinson scored over 2200 twice in a season and had over 300 assists twice, Hakeem never did either of those things. So who was more "productive"? According to you, the guy with fewer points and assists.
Robinson was underrated by this board mainly because of the Spurs rivalry and that year when he got the MVP over Hakeem before Hakeem schooled him in the playoffs. He was obviously one of the best centers in his era, and that says a lot because that was the golden era of dominant centers. He's definitely much better than Dwight Howard. I wouldn't say he's better than Duncan though.
