(Sorry for repeated talking points) I don't have MUCH problem with Patterson for Robinson swap. (And yes again, I created this now defunct CF "Patsquatch" group. If anyone should be missing him it'd be me) The weak part is letting MARCUS MORRIS go with it. Just unnecessary shedding. While Morris wasnt a world beater and was inconsistent tweener, he at least had enough experience in the system and showed he could step up as a starter without the team missing much a beat (of course Patterson off the bench playing well was a reason for that success too). Still it was much more than the other alternatives have provided. With Royce White not panning out this year at all, was even more risky cutting away semi-proven position depth. (And yes, could be using some Luis Scola too)
That's been admitted. PP was a 4 year college player in his 3rd year as a Rocket. Of course he is better than TRob (or DMo) right now. Morey admitted there would be at least a slight step back with the trade. However, we're still on a good path to make the playoffs (I understand we had a 90+% last year too). It's still a good bet we make the playoffs without PP. The trade was made for the future. It is clear PP was not the future for the Rockets. He's a good PF, but is ceiling was most likely decent starter/rotation player. Also, in one year he had to be paid. It was clear the Rockets were NOT going to pay him. They had DMo behind him who they were higher on, for starters. So if they were not going to pay him after next year, then the smart thing to do is trade him now. Even then, if Morey is to believe they did not intend to trade PP - they did it only because this opportunity became available. Morey couldn't pass it up even though it reduced the likelihood of the playoffs this year because: 1. If you listen to his podcast, Morey is clearly VERY HIGH on TRob's potential as an all-star (which clearly is not the case with PP) 2. If you just look at the reaction around the league, it is very clear that the league (other than SAC) values TRob a LOT more than PP. So Rockets can get more for him than PP, easily. And they have 3 more years to evaluate him. 3. TRob has just started and was playing for one of the most mismanaged teams in the league. It is not proper to judge him now. His rebounds and points in 15 minutes? Don't they seem pretty similar to Asik's when he was playing behind Noah? My point is - the Rockets are pretty decent at projecting. They're not always right (no one is), but I am fairly confident in their ability to "win" trades. Morris was a loss when you add him and PP at the same time (one or the other, we would be in pretty good shape). This was clearly another calculated move in weighing what they could get for him now (a very early second rounder) over what he would fetch at the end of the year. Rockets don't do this unless they thought DMo and TRob could develop enough to (i) show potential adn (ii) help this team get to the playoffs. Also, the long term goal here is to play both - if they develop, they become far more valuable. If Marcus stuck around, there would be no time for TRob to develop (to either see if he has IT or if they can package him in a trade). Yes, we took a step back. But (1) I still think we make the playoffs anyway and (2) we clearly improved the future. PP was gone next year - they need the cap space for superstars and were targeting other PFs or needed a PF to become a superstar here. PP was reliable but NOT a superstar in the making.
Pat spent 3 years in college, same as Robinson. Morey was also high on Terrence Williams' potential and Marcus Morris' potential.
Congratulations, you've become the worst poster on the forum. We weren't re-signing Patterson anyways. A player who was going to walk as a free agent was turned into a top 5 pick. Get over it. Or don't, just stop posting about it. Everyone knows how you feel about it.
Sorry for that mistake and thanks for the correction. I understand about Williams and Morris. There will be misses (Morey at least was able to recoup part of the Morris loss; and once he acquired TRob, he had to ship out Morris to give TRob time to develop/flash). Morey is on record as saying he's going after high risk high reward players. That's exactly what DMo, Royce White, TRob etc. are. PP is a good player who is pretty consistent, would have clearly helped more, and will get better, but his upside is more limited than TRob's right now (by most accounts). Yes TRob could end up worse. But Morey's reaction is to the trade seemed to be less "it was a risky deal but we ultimately had to do it" and more "we weren't planning on trading him, but SAC was so idiotic in offering the trade that we had no choice but to do it". Also don't discount the fact that PP was one year away from being up for much more money than the Rockets had already valued him. It's the same when they knew Lowry was the guy and effectively let Brooks walk - they traded him because they knew they weren't going to pay him when Lowry was better. I'm a big fan of most of your posts and your sense of humor, but I really think you're wrong on this point. I'd argue that it's a toss up if we miss the playoffs this year (I would still do the trade knowing that) but if we make the playoffs anyway then this is needless worry.
I don't see DMo, Royce White and TRob as "high risk, high reward" players. I see risk, and a low reward, if any.
Well, I think Morey's thinking was...Patterson's in a contract year. He wasn't really in the long-term plans. Someone probably would've overpaid for him so let's see what we can get for him at the deadline. They got a lottery pick in the first year of his rookie scale deal, which normally is an amazing asset. But I was never high on T-Rob. He had bust written all over him coming out of college. I think he can be a solid bench player if he finds his niche. D-Mo however I think will get much better. He has a good feel for the game. But this system has forced him to be a spot-up 3-point shooter which he is not. We gotta get him some looks on the block to give him some confidence and get him in a rhythm. Let him touch the ball a few times instead of just catching and shooting from 3. Keep him involved. Let him make plays in the high post. We have no variety in our offense. No backscreens, no cutters, just the same play over and over. I think we have intelligent enough offensive players where we could employ a system similar to what Pop runs in San Antonio. There's just no rhythm in our offense. Even guys that are open aren't ready to shoot because of how unpredictable the offense is. It's almost like they don't practice. Every possession is an adventure.
Well then you just don't get it then. You don't win championships trying to hang onto solid role players. You become a contender by taking risks, some larger than others. Teams that 'tank' take a risk to get a player like Lebron. Rockets took a large risk in getting Harden and instantly giving him the max. They took risks on Asik and Lin. You don't get far in the NBA trying to be conservative.
If you don't see the upside for DMO, I'm not sure what to say. He arguably is low risk, high reward. White was high risk high reward - he had major skills but dropped because of personal issues. Rockets had 3 mid first round picks. They looked like they crapped out. TRob is a top 5 pick in his very first year. THe other busts had longer time to fail to "flash" so to speak. Also SAC is a mess and not good developmentally. Finally, his per 36 numbers work out to be 10-11 rbs/ 10-11 pts. That's pretty good, don't you think? So definition of high reward.
you also don't win championships by flipping for value every chance you get. You do have to look at the things with an analytical perspective but sometimes keeping guys do to good faith while keeping their upside in mind can do wonders. Great teams realize it is a fragile thing.
This is definitely true when you're close to contender level. The Rockets are not. That argument would leave us with Lowry, Scola, Buddinger, etc. Flipping is how we got Harden. We won't flip Harden - now we're flipping only to get pieces to work with him. As we add more pieces that work, the flips will slow down, or only happen when they're really too good to pass up. For example, while Morey may trade Asik/Parson/Lin, it will only happen if there is a clear step forward, and not just to get a little better. Also, most of the past flipping was to clear out old talent or talent that was about to be expensive for newer cheaper talent with more upside. There is a core that is starting to form. Only if we get a DHo or Chris Paul or Kev Love type player would Morey trade the core quickly. Otherwise he will be slightly less active, I think.
The Rockets did pay a FA fair market value in recent years ONCE: Scola. And they quickly amnestied him. But the situation was different. We were trying to get Howard (or Bynum according to some rumors). So they had to let go of a lot of salaries. Now that we have Harden, we are supposed to (1) get another star, and (2) get good role players to surround the stars. Patterson is a good role player (and is still improving), especially if you have a great rebounding center in Asik. Not to mention, Patterson would have been a good trade asset if we needed to make a deal for a big fish. I still hold to my theory that Morey made the trade out of reflex. (He admitted that it wasn't something he aggressively pursued, and that it was at the last minute before the trade deadline.) It just came and it was so seductive (the so-called "high reward low risk" thing) that he couldn't resist. And if he had more time to actually think about it rationally, he might have second thought.
Patrick Patterson continues to perform well. Contributed with Toney Douglas to a big win over the clippers tonight.
What if, and I'm not saying it's a guarantee, just a possibility, Robinson in his 3rd year becomes better than Patterson in his 3rd year?
