And if she wasn't sixteen? Let's say she is 21, what is your argument then. I understand this case involves her being underage and drinking but all these circumstances are irrelevant to the fact that this girl was raped. I guess some people just don't see rape as as serious of an offense as others, and for this reason find it justifiable to criminalize the victim in this case.
I haven't read through every post in this thread so I can't defend or give more credit to JD88 and Shaud's argument but as I said I think I understand what they are arguing but I think they may have phrased it poorly and have also gotten caught up too much in the back and forth. You are right to point out that there is a dangerous shaming of the victim that happens in rape defenses and that is one reason why it is under reporting. I can only imagine in a town as football dominated as Steubenville that shame is probably even harder to deal with as a victim of star football players. I totally agree this is a big problem but it is also one that makes it difficult to discuss these issues openly and honestly. To be clear I am not arguing from a moral or legal standpoint. What I am stating is from a self-defense standpoint as someone who teaches self-defense. 90% of self-defense is avoiding a situation where you actually have to physically defend yourself. That means learning to recognize the potentially threatening situations and avoiding them. Unfortunately one of those situations is as a young woman around young men when alcohol is involved. There is a very fine line regarding how we deal with this situation without it turning into blaming the victim or paranoia that drinking will lead to getting to rape but I think it is a disservice to young women, and young men, to not address that sexual assault especially in college is often accompanied by heavy alcohol consumption by both the perpetrator and the victim.
weak ass debaters have to put false arguments in people's mouth's to win arguments. i have never said rape is justified or isn't serious. next if she was 21 she probably wouldn't be at a party with ignorant sixteen year olds. twenty one year women who get raped after having to many at the frat party, yes she shouldn't be passed out, yes the perps should get real time in real prisons
Men also need to be aware of the dangers of drinking to passing out. While rape isn't high on the list being robbed and injured are possibilities with at the minimum embarrassment and shame.
Yes, and many of them are "volunteer" coaches whatever that means. I wish I could find the original story with all this information. Maybe tomorrow when I have more time. It talked about how there is a bar in town that is only open to football players and the owner supplies them with all the drugs and alcohol they want. Including the date rape drug. "Coaches" throwing huge parties at their houses for the players. I can't believe you guys are going round and round about whether or not this girl was drunk. There is SO MUCH MORE to this story...........
yes men don't have to be worried about rape as much as women, that's not misogyny bro. men should have better jobs than women, men should rule the house, women shouldn't be president because they might push the button at that time of the month is misogyny. women having to worry about being sexually assaulted is life
Sigh... I truly wish this was an era where maiming was an appropriate punishment - cause these perpetrators definitely deserve it. Both hands and their entire sex organ. Don't care that they are 16 or were intoxicated.
Please read my post again and you will see that I didn't state either of those things, and not directed towards you personally either. I stated some people don't see rape as being as serious of an offense as say murder, while I personally do. Also, I was talking about some people justifying the criminalizing of the victim, not justifying rape. So please get your "weak ass" comprehension skills checked since you obviously can't come up with a decent reply to justify your stance.
It's still be a poor choice on her part, but wouldn't have been illegal. Nobody is justifying the crime. There is no excuse on the part of the guys. Anybody who watched, filmed, or participated should serve punishments for their roles.
I think this is the most troubling part of this whole story that much of the town basically accepted, abetted, and even defended their behavior.
The whole town protected these stupid boys and covered up what they did. They also chose to not believe the girl when she said she got raped even when evidence was there. If this story didn't gain the exposure it did and people didn't bring light upon it, those boys would still be out there today acting like nothing happened. Most of us probably have no idea what the girl went through and what she is going through now. How would you feel if you had gotten raped and when you went out and told the adults none of them believed you and instead called you a slut? It takes a lot of bravery to stand up for justice, and it was practically her family and her against the whole town. There is so much more things that people in this town did wrong compared to a teenager getting drunk.
How such a bar can exist blows my mind. It sounds unbelievable. Those "coaches" should never be allowed at the school or any school function again. You hate to punish everyone, but they should be considering cancelling next season. I'd definitely be in favor of any player known to be at that party to not be kicked off the team, and the coaches all being replaced with people completely outside the program. Students safety and education > Football.
i agree, the volunteers sound like a bunch of matthew mcconaughey's in dazed and confused. its not alot to the story actually, a rust belt town that has nothing but its football team left to proud of
The apology from these guys was completely worthless at the end of this trial. You just spent the last few months trying to make her life worse. Your lawyer just spent the trial calling her a drunk and a liar. Not to mention the bragging that seemed to be going around that helped get them locked up.
There is not disrepect .. . . to say a man . . who will be raped. . . will be raped Rocket River I am kind of a fan of Karma though
Actually the biggest criminals are the Adults that covered it up THEM .. . I probably do want them to go to POUND THEM IN THE *SS PRISON Rocket River
All I said was 'You're not making sense' and you go off on a tangent putting words in my post. You're really contradicting yourself here with your thoughts on the subject.
On a side note, it was the efforts of the internet group "anonymous" that really created the attention for this case to make it go on trial and not just get dismissed as a slutty girl making false acusations. The police there were sitting around ignoring it until anonymous made their campaign to get this going.
Amen brother!!!! People want to bash her because she got drunk and passed out, fine go ahead. Although it sounds like she was drugged. So are you losers that are defending these scumbags now going to bash her for not paying too close attention to her drink and thus someone able to put a drug in her drink? Since she wasn't watching her drink close enough, with the loser logic on here by some of you, she is responsible for getting raped because she didn't watch her drink close enough and thus she put herself in this situation. And for you LOSERS on here that don't think being raped is as bad as killing someone, why don't you go talk to women who have been raped and hear what they say. Most of these women would say being raped is WAY worse than being killed. And when people start calling you a slut, a liar, that you brought this upon yourself, and from that point on people will never look at you the same way again, most of these rape victims would almost prefer being killed than raped. Maybe you might look at rape differently if this was your daughter, or sister, or wife.
