Best thing about the blowout win over Suns: No small ball.

HadToDoItCF · Mar 14, 2013

HamJam said: ↑

That knife cuts both ways though. They had a weak front court for sure, but often the team has taken that opportunity to roll out the small line up, as opposed to playing big and trying to take advantage of that size advantage.

Also, I agree with those posting that the Suns were weak and we should not take away too much from one game against a weak opponent. My point is just that this is the first time we have seen the young players allow the coaching staff not to go small, as well as the first time we have seen the coaching staff willing to do so. These are of course related firsts, and each are related to who we were playing -- but the coaching staff could have easily responded to the 1st half struggles by going small, and they chose not to. I am not saying that led to the better performance by the young bigs (quite the opposite), but I like to see the coaching staff looking not to go small and I love to see the players allow them to make that decision -- even against a bad team like the Suns (better than not seeing this against a bad team like the Suns (or the Mavs, or the Wizards, etc) as we have recently seen).
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How does that cut both ways? You're saying a team intentionally goes small because they know the other team is weak inside? How does that really make sense?

McHale goes small because our young power forwards - that included 2Pat and MM - play like **** at times, not because he's in love with small line-ups (actually, in terms of his stated basketball philosophy, he absolutely prefers a larger line-up). If this is not clear to people, see the 2nd Dallas game or the first Suns game. Then look at last night's game.

Rip Van Rocket · Mar 14, 2013

I have no problems with small ball if it's working. We beat OKC and Brooklyn playing a lot of small ball. I want the coach to use different player combinations when it can get us a win. I don't want a coach that's locked into one rotation or lineup all the time. I want the coach to have different options when playing different opponents.

HamJam · Mar 14, 2013

HadToDoItCF said: ↑

How does that cut both ways? You're saying a team intentionally goes small because they know the other team is weak inside? How does that really make sense?

McHale goes small because our young power forwards - that included 2Pat and MM - play like **** at times, not because he's in love with small line-ups (actually, in terms of his stated basketball philosophy, he absolutely prefers a larger line-up). If this is not clear to people, see the 2nd Dallas game or the first Suns game. Then look at last night's game.
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The Rocket's small lineup has been statistically very efficient this season, so the team often tries to use it if they won't be punished on the defensive side of the court by going small. Going against PHX was thus a good opportunity to go small, since the Suns were playing people at the 4 that Parsons could easily guard (Morris and Beasley). When teams play larger and better post players at the 4, the Rockets suffer a lot more defensively by going small, so they tend to avoid it then.

So, when I say the knife cuts both way, I am saying that the undersized Suns front court did indeed give the young bigs an advantage they don't normally have, but such a lineup as the Suns were using has often in the past allowed McHale to go small and not take advantage of a potential size advantage.

HamJam · Mar 14, 2013

Rip Van Rocket said: ↑

I have no problems with small ball if it's working. We beat OKC and Brooklyn playing a lot of small ball. I want the coach to use different player combinations when it can get us a win. I don't want a coach that's locked into one rotation or lineup all the time. I want the coach to have different options when playing different opponents.
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I agree with this completely -- the thing I find encouraging in the Suns game is that the team had the option of not going small. They of course always have this option, but the fact that it worked and that they did not find the need to go small for the entire game is encouraging.

HadToDoItCF · Mar 14, 2013

HamJam said: ↑

The Rocket's small lineup has been statistically very efficient this season, so the team often tries to use it if they won't be punished on the defensive side of the court by going small. Going against PHX was thus a good opportunity to go small, since the Suns were playing people at the 4 that Parsons could easily guard (Morris and Beasley). When teams play larger and better post players at the 4, the Rockets suffer a lot more defensively by going small, so they tend to avoid it then.

So, when I say the knife cuts both way, I am saying that the undersized Suns front court did indeed give the young bigs an advantage they don't normally have, but such a lineup as the Suns were using has often in the past allowed McHale to go small and not take advantage of a potential size advantage.
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I would agree that the small ball line-up has been efficient for us this year, but I disagree with the rationale that it is a good time to roll it out when you are playing against a weak frontcourt and your bigs are playing well. The times that he goes to small ball are a result of foul trouble, injury and/or bad play.

I can not tell you how many times I've been in a game thread or a random thread where someone goes off on McHale for his substitutions and playing small ball when we have had foul trouble and/or injuries that forced his hand. Countless. I think most of the hatred for small ball comes from the average fan's myopic viewpoint that doesn't even consider the fact that your starting 4 has 2 fouls in the first quarter or 4 fouls in the 3rd. There are times when coaches have unique line-ups out there because of in-game situations, but McHale doesn't adjust to those ever, so that obviously can't be the case right?

HamJam · Mar 14, 2013

HadToDoItCF said: ↑

I would agree that the small ball line-up has been efficient for us this year, but I disagree with the rationale that it is a good time to roll it out when you are playing against a weak frontcourt and your bigs are playing well. The times that he goes to small ball are a result of foul trouble, injury and/or bad play.

I can not tell you how many times I've been in a game thread or a random thread where someone goes off on McHale for his substitutions and playing small ball when we have had foul trouble and/or injuries that forced his hand. Countless. I think most of the hatred for small ball comes from the average fan's myopic viewpoint that doesn't even consider the fact that your starting 4 has 2 fouls in the first quarter or 4 fouls in the 3rd. There are times when coaches have unique line-ups out there because of in-game situations, but McHale doesn't adjust to those ever, so that obviously can't be the case right?
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Okay, so I think our difference of opinion then is that I think McHale and the coaching staff choose to use the small line up based not only on bad play and foul troubles, but also based on match ups, whereas you do not think they take match ups into consideration as much.

Honestly though, this disagreement is a moot point. I don't criticize McHale for using the small lineup per se, I just like the fact that he was not forced into doing so last night, since it was the first he was not forced to do so in as many games as I can remember, and definitely the first time since the Patterson trade.

The fact that his hand was not forced into going small is a good sign -- that is all I am saying.

mac_got_this · Mar 14, 2013

A big part of it was Greg Smith was able to successfully spell Asik some minutes without getting in foul trouble and making bad rookie-esque. Smith is one of our most important players. When he has a decent game we're really a much better team and dont have to force Asik so many minutes.

I get mad when he doesnt grasp the altitude of the opportunity he has right now. Morey is jsut waiting to upgrade him to fine asset.

HadToDoItCF · Mar 14, 2013

HamJam said: ↑

Okay, so I think our difference of opinion then is that I think McHale and the coaching staff choose to use the small line up based not only on bad play and foul troubles, but also based on match ups, whereas you do not think they take match ups into consideration as much.

Honestly though, this disagreement is a moot point. I don't criticize McHale for using the small lineup per se, I just like the fact that he was not forced into doing so last night, since it was the first he was not forced to do so in as many games as I can remember, and definitely the first time since the Patterson trade.

The fact that his hand was not forced into going small is a good sign -- that is all I am saying.
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Yeah I agree it was nice to see us able to split 48 minutes between 2 rookie power forwards and still win by 30. If that was the case every night, I doubt we'd field many small ball line-ups.

HTown_TMac · Mar 14, 2013

I wish we had some high post sets.

HadToDoItCF · Mar 14, 2013

HTown_TMac said: ↑

I wish we had some high post sets.
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I wish we had some big men capable of running high post sets.

RickyNewport · Mar 14, 2013

HamJam said: ↑

And, going into the playoffs, while I think we can indeed win playing at such a fast pace, I question the ability to win in the playoffs while depending on Parsons, Delfino or Garcia to play the 4 -- this I find it very encouraging to finally see a game in which the team did not have to resort to that.
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I question the ability to win in the playoffs if we have to DEPEND on them regardless of where they play.

RickyNewport · Mar 14, 2013

Playing small ball is good when you're trying to force the oppositions big men off the floor and they try to match up with you. BUT, if their smalls can score and you're defense is suspect, and or if they leave their bigs in and you are getting killed on the offensive boards and you're 6-7 guard is getting dunked on ---> you F'd up...

I think McHale learned from the last game when the Suns had like 18 offensive boards which leads to more field goal attempts which puts a strain on your defense.

It wouldn't be so bad going small, if Parsons wasn't so weak in the paint and was a better rebounder.

HTown_TMac · Mar 14, 2013

HadToDoItCF said: ↑

I wish we had some big men capable of running high post sets.
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We do.. Except he's on our D-League squad.

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Best thing about the blowout win over Suns: No small ball.

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