I was flicking back and forth between the Rockets game on ESPN and the Lakers game on League Pass, so I watched all this live. ALL of these shots were unbelieveable but especially that turnaround from the corner off the inbounds. It almost makes you wonder if the basketball gods are Laker fans.
Everyone respects kobes game and sees him as the 2nd best sg of all time, but when you compare him to MJ or even say hes better, you're gonna annoy a lot of people. 2nd best, and yet so far away from MJ IMO. I just can't see what people see when they say those things. And then of course the most annoying thing is they pull **** out of their ass like "And don't give me the rings/mvp stuff, we all know they would be a lot closer in hardware if Kobe played back then or MJ played now." It's amazing how quickly Shaq is forgotten. 2 rings is all he would have and we would be talking only top 10 best sg of all time. By ring 2, Jordan had already built a resume to be considered GOAT. With all the circumstances and everything laid out for Kobe from the get go by threatening the league that he would only play for the Lakers instead of pay his dues like anyone else and playing for the team that drafted him, with 3 rings to start his career thanks to playing with one of the most dominant and greatest big men of all time, he still falls so short of even touching MJ's accomplishments. You wanna talk putting him in Jordans era and Jordan with Shaq. Go ahead. Jordan never needed a big man to win at all. Giving him the most dominant now? I see more than 6 easily. Kobe has never won without a dominant front court. And good luck having Kobe have to make up for those games where MJ went just insane in the biggest playoff games. Magic would have 1 more, Barkley would have 1. Malone would have 2. Kobe and Pip would have 1 against the Blazers and i have a hard time imagining him beating the Sonics when everyone was hurt at the end of that 72 win season.
With what team would you then put Kobe if not on the Bulls and vice versa for MJ? If we are to compare their career course in alternate universe where their talent remains the same, then it makes sense to imagine Kobe's career with the Bulls and MJ with Shaq's Lakers. Kobe rode Shaq for three of his rings, Jordan rode no one. Put MJ with Shaq and you end up with 8 rings in a row with MJ as The Man.
Kobe is what a max contract player should be like. D12 is what a dominant center should play like. Rockets are stuck with The Beard.
Forgot about shaq? Did you forget about Pippen?? Jordan never needed a big man? What's that about? Does that make Lebron automatically better now than Kobe, since he didn't need a good center? It's a pointless argument. they both needed help, like almost every one else does. MJ was ahead of his time. The league is catching up now to that level of talent and athleticism. The game is different. All the arguments you made against Kobe could be made against MJ. You don't mention Pippen, durant, Lebron, duncan. You also don't mention what Kobe has managed to become without every playing college ball, which is a big reason why Kobe's first few years don't match up to MJ's. Pound for pound, he's right behind MJ. Lol...so your reasoning is that, if they were to switch teams, Jordan would automatically ends up with his best case scenario, but Kobe would have to worry about X amount of things, so he'd come up short, right? I guess all the talent in the league, now, would just faint the moment His Airness stepped on the court. and of course shaq would never ask out, right? He and MJ would be best friends, despite the fact that MJ was just as much of a jerk as Kobe is, on the court and with teammates. Your bias is showing.
Except that in Kobe's case, for three of his rings, he did not need help: he himself was part of the help, for prime Shaq, the most dominant big man of the last 30 years. Role players don't need help, LMAO.
"Then, he said Shaq was the most dominant big in the last 30 years!" Role player? ROLE player? Ask Morey to get us a guy who puts up 28 a game, since they're just role players. Then, come back and tell me how hard he laughs in your face.
I am not biased for MJ who I reckon is one of the biggest @sshole in sports: only a low-life will jet in his old high school team mate for his HOF induction only to describe how said team mate sucked and how it was such an error that MJ was not picked ahead of him. However, prime Jordan was a team-oriented player (who learned to become one by sucking for nearly a decade) while Kobe is nothing but Kobe-oriented. Do you really think that 34 year old MVP MJ will have this current Lakers team below 0.500? On the other hand, it's all about Kobe: how Nash is going to provide more assists for Kobe and how Dwight is going to grabs offensive rebounds for Kobe. MJ winning 8 rings in a row if paired with prime Shaq is a fact of life that Kobetards choose to ignore: same triangle offense, same coach, same position (SG), one pretender, only one GOAT.
Great roleplayers are still roleplayers. Those 28ppg had totally nothing to do with the fact that one of the greatest force in NBA history is being triple teamed in the post. It sucks to be a kobetard...
And, oh, those Hakeem laughing pics each time great centers are being discussed smacks of homerism. Just as it smacked of homerism when Wilt was disrespected in an earlier thread. Fact is that prime Hakeem never faced prime Shaq, prime Hakeem just about shaded his encounters with a young Shaq in 1995.
Lol so Pip is now = to Shaq in impact huh? I guess Kobe was the leader of those 3 champs as Jordan was the leader? Pip was a great #2 as was Kobe. But, thats the key. #2. We aren't talking about Pip being the GOAT. You argue for Kobe who has 3 rings as a #2 guy. Also, PIP was there since 22 years old. He developed into the player he was from a 8ppg player alongside Jordan who was what? 35ppg guy headed to be the best scorer of all time? You think Jordan nothing to do with his development? Jordan didn't demand a trade while those teams were struggling. He didn't have an all star handed to him. Kobe gets his wish to be #1 in LA and his team sucks. So what's he do? He demands a trade bc he was spoiled with 3 rings from the get go. They then get handed Gasol and now Kobe is so great again. Hardly ever did PIP or any role player outplay Jordan in the Finals. Pau arguably played = to Kobe and many thought he should have been Finals MVP. Jordan ALWAYS rose to the top on the biggest stage. Lets check out playoff stats. I'll leave to you to firgure who's numbers are whos. And yes. I say again. Jordan never needed a big man in a league where HOF big men ruled the league. Kobe needed big men in a league without big men. And yes Lebron will easily go down as top 4 player of all time. Kobe is top 15. Lebron is ridiculous. The only guy who has a chance to get near Jordan status. But, in your mind you "automatically" think Kobe is better bc of 5 rings which everyone knows is 2 only as the man. The game is different? Yeah, its wing oriented now. Catching up to that level of talent and athleticism? You think bc guys wore short shorts and didn't do flashy dribbling and dunks, that they weren't as athletic as players today? They are getting bigger and stronger bc of advancements in training, medicine, diets. Okay. So give Jordan and other guys of his era more advantages to be even better and faster and stronger. But, i also assume to you, this league of incredible physical talent today would render Jordan to a regular player bc people guarding kobe today can jump higher than people in Jordans era. Doing fancy 360s and fancy dribble moves doesn't make you a defender. Kobe comes from an era of flashy inefficient chucker guards. The league is heading the right way with guys like Bron and Durant as Kobe exits. These guys can put up all the same points as Kobe ever could and they do it as efficient as guys like Jordan. Also, Jordan wasn't just ahead of his time. He would be ahead of any time. Young Jordan's athletic ability is far superior to almost all players today or since. I don't mention what Kobe managed to become bc instead of playing college, he played alongside the most dominant big and greatest coach of all time. His first few years don't match up to MJ? Only 1 of his years matches up to MJ. A year in which somehow Kobe scores 35 a game, but yet AI somehow becomes a 33ppg scorer, 21 year old Bron putting up 31.5 and Arneas putting up 30.
So....Having Hakeem's footwork, Jordan's core control, and Miller's touch...Kobe should play like LeBron instead? Why? That's no fun to watch. I want to see Kobe school the **** out of defenders. Historically, Kobe's clip is as good as anyone's (around 47% I think), and this season he's actually having the best TS% year of his career. If he played like he was some brain dead Duke product, he wouldn't be Kobe Bryant. Just stop it, Kobe's a top ten all time in the minds of coachs, players, and seasoned fans alike, and that should speak volumes. Stop it. Haturds
yeah but he needed some skinny dude named scottie pippen. i'm not arguing kobe's better than mj, but to win all those rings, you definitely need a very strong support casting, even mj included.
