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Syria

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by da1, Apr 10, 2012.

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  1. AroundTheWorld

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    I don't.

    And you start some of the dumbest threads in the history of Clutchfans ("Republicans are terrorists") and don't seem to be very eloquent.

    A simple mind.
     
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  2. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    So Assad isn't a murdering dictator?

    I don't know how you solve the problem over there, but leaving Assad as is doesn't seem like a good idea.
     
  3. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    I've read them and agree that things aren't perfect and some things are horribly wrong, and hope the Egyptian people continue to protest the wrongs and authoritarian moves there.

    The fact that Egyptians protest those is a fact. That's one of the facts I've provided that show things are better now than they were before. I'm sorry you missed it.

    Better luck to you in the future.
     
  4. AroundTheWorld

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    I don't support Assad.

    My point is - if the only way to avoid a worse evil would be to support the lesser of two evils - be it through omission or, if the other evil is much, much worse, through active support - don't you have to consider it?

    E.g., the USA partnered with Stalin to get rid of Hitler...

    It's a dilemma.
     
  5. AroundTheWorld

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    So they didn't protest Mubarak? Oops...they did. That's what led to his demise.

    If your only point is the freedom to protest, then you have a weak case.

    First of all, the freedom to protest (and, in fact, to even go out) has already been curtailed in several provinces, as you could read in one of the articles I posted. Secondly, since the Muslim Brotherhood took over, the situation for female protesters has gotten much, much worse. Thirdly, freedom of media and comedy has already been curtailed - more so than before.

    If you had read the articles, you would understand that, instead of living in your dream world that things are actually better.

    Things are not better. They are worse. It's tragic, because the revolution got hijacked by the Muslim Brotherhood, and while it started out as a wonderful movement for freedom and more economic prosperity, the opposite has happened so far. Freedoms have already been curtailed, freedoms (especially of women) will be curtailed in much worse form than under Mubarak, and the economy is trending in a much worse direction than it was under Mubarak.

    The sooner you realize this and stop living in denial, the better.
     
  6. da1

    da1 Member

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    You're such a troll, worse than bigtexxx. I hope you get banned soon, and will try my best to make it happen.
     
  7. AroundTheWorld

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    [​IMG]
     
  8. bobmarley

    bobmarley Member

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    Reported.
     
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  9. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    They weren't allowed to under Mubarak. Hoods were sent in to beat them and kill them when they did. But the people protested anyway, and when they did you're absolutely right it lead to his demise. That's why it's so great that they are able to express their displeasure with the govt. now. Hopefully it will lead to more improvements.


    It's odd that you seem disparaging of these freedoms on one hand and try to dismiss them as not an improvement, yet on the other hand you acknowledge that they lead to the overthrow of a dictator.

    I'm sorry that you don't see the new freedoms and exercising of those freedoms as an improvement. I absolutely do. I guess we'll just disagree. I prefer to let the people Egypt decide their own govt. while you preferred a brutal dictator.
     
  10. NotInMyHouse

    NotInMyHouse Member

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    I don't know. Some things may be "allowed", but it sounds like the same heavy-handed tactics (intimidation, torture, murder) are still happening under Morsi.
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/07/thousands-of-egyptian-police-protest-the-muslim-brotherhood/
     
  11. AroundTheWorld

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    You are a complete idiot. Leave out the "I'm sorry blablablablablablablabla" crap. Nobody is even reading that bull****.

    Yeah, you are the greatest because you prefer to let the people decide their own govt. yadayadayada. It's the typical "I'm a better person because I'm from the left" nonsense.

    I have already posted articles which say that for women, protesting has become much more dangerous than it was under Mubarak. You continue to ignore these facts, instead you repeat the same nausea-inducing drivel about how you are a better person because YOU LET THE PEOPLE IN EGYPT DECIDE (LOL) something.

    The fact is, they do NOT have more freedom

    For women: It's worse.
    For others: The Islamist hoodlums have been attacking people who are protesting Mursi. And the police is still beating up protesters.

    What exactly is better about that than under Mubarak?

    http://www.dw.de/clashes-break-out-amid-renewed-anti-government-protests-in-egypt/a-16587792

    There have been several clashes between security forces and demonstrators outside of the palace in recent weeks, in which at least 10 people have been killed. Video footage that emerged last week showing police stripping and beating a man near the palace caused particular anger among Egyptians.
     
  12. FranchiseBlade

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    Morsi is definitely using heavy handed tactics and is already trying to grab more power.

    I'm in no way saying that things are find and dandy. Like most govt. over throws I predict it will be decades before Egypt gets some kind of stability and rids themselves of much of the brutality and corruption in their government.

    But I guess my stomach is a little stronger than those who something bad happen and immediately cry and lament over the good ol' Mubarak days.

    I believe that overthrowing him was the right step to take, and hope the path to progress continues.
     
  13. AroundTheWorld

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    What progress? It's worse for women - how is that progress? And it's at least just as bad for everyone else - how is that progress?

    It's mind-numbing how you keep repeating the same nonsense while ignoring the facts.

    In fact, it is insulting to Egyptians and to any person with an IQ higher than a monkey's.

    I would love it if it was indeed better - but it isn't! Stop pretending that it is.
     
  14. FranchiseBlade

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    It really bothers you that Egyptians have more freedom now under people you can't stand than under the dictator, Mubarak.

    You can barely seem to control your bitterness, lacing your posts with profanity and personal insults. I can't imagine people gaining self-determination and freedom upsetting someone so much. I hope you're eventually able to deal with it in a more reasoned way.

    Thank you for posting the article about the clashes which continue to show that Egyptians will not settle for the brutal heavy handedness of the past, and are willing to stand up to it, as they continue to adjust to life after the dictator Mubarak.
     
  15. FranchiseBlade

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    Enjoy the fantasy land where having more freedom and self determination is worse.
     
  16. AroundTheWorld

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    Several elements at play here:

    - insinuating that whoever disagrees is a bad person who would be bothered by freedom for people (which is ridiculous)
    - ignoring facts and pretending that there is more freedom when in fact there is not more freedom (everyone can see that, and sources have been provided)

    At this point, you are nothing but an idiot.
     
  17. AroundTheWorld

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    Please explain how getting attacked and beaten up by Islamist hoodlums while demonstrating and where getting sexually attacked in the worst way by the same Islamist hoodlums represents "more freedom and self-determination".

    Address this.
     
  18. AroundTheWorld

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    This is from Al-Arabiya and was reprinted in the Huffington Post. So it is not from some right-wing blog or anything. Please read it so that you understand the facts. This article is from last month, and is talking about post-Mubarak.

    Please address the question: How is that more freedom and self-determination? What exactly is better? Women are getting raped and molested when they take to the streets and whatever police brutality happened before is still happening, and the Islamists have been attacking liberal protesters in the streets brutally. How is that "more freedom and self-determination"?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/faisal-abbas/muslim-brotherhood-egypt-revolution_b_2658360.html

    The 'Naked Truth' About Egypt's Brotherhood

    Until this week, many observers may have still wondered what kind of rulers the Muslim Brotherhood are in Egypt. Since assuming office last June, questions were being raised around the dubious power-consolidation strategy carried out by President Mohammed Morsi, the democratically elected Brotherhood candidate who came into power on the back of the demise of the Mubarak regime in 2011.

    However, there was very little room left for uncertainty recently, when a highly disturbing video of Egyptian police brutality went viral. The footage shows police officers stripping middle-aged protester Hamada Saber naked, and beating him senseless in front of the presidential palace; this was said to have taken place last Friday.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0TsrI-L_OkA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


    No reason to celebrate

    Egyptians have taken back to the streets since last Jan. 25, to mark the second anniversary of the revolution that ended the 30-year rule of President Hosni Mubarak. However, it was quickly evident that the crowds were not gathering to celebrate; this was another angry protest.

    With a tarnished economy, worsening living conditions, the re-establishment of the state of emergency, and a government that seemed only keen to serve the interests of the ruling party (the Brotherhood in this case), Egyptians were back to square one.

    Eight months into its rule, the Brotherhood has very little to show in terms of achievements (apart from Cairo's first 'halal' coffee-shop, where gender-segregation is imposed and playing music is forbidden!). The only brilliance the Brotherhood has shown is in waste-management: they "managed" to "waste" a real and valuable opportunity when the whole world was ready to support the resurgence of Egypt.

    Unsurprisingly, many global players are now reluctant to lend the country the money it so badly needs to get back on its feet. Egypt has just received a loan offer from Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, but this is not necessarily a good thing. In today's world, any offers of 'assistance' from Iran can only mean one thing: that you must have messed up so badly with everyone else.

    A unified opposition

    This is not to say that Egyptians were wrong to go down the democratic route, and this is certainly not to say that we should not accept the choice of the now-democratic republic of Egypt.

    However, let us not shy away from the truth: that it was not the Brotherhood that ignited or led the 2011 revolution, and that since there was no clear opposition figure that claimed responsibility for it, the path was clear for the Brotherhood to reap the rewards.


    In addition, due to some questionable inner-workings of local politics, when the time to vote arrived in 2012, Egyptians were caught between a rock and a hard place. The only two choices left were the Brotherhood's candidate, and one associated with the former regime.

    Whilst much can be said to criticize the Brotherhood, one cannot but admire how well-organized and structured it is. Indeed, it was evident that it was going to be the de-facto beneficiary of the Egyptian revolution.

    The country's liberal opposition must unite behind a strong and savvy politician, and this must happen now. Without a healthy, solid and powerful opposition that could impose a system of checks and balances, it will not just be a protester dragged naked onto the streets, but the whole country.

    ---------------

    The bolded part is exactly right. Your ridiculous attempts to smear me and pretend that I do not want Egyptians to have freedom is an obvious lie. I think the root of the Arab Spring movement was fantastic. I am merely describing things as they are - and have provided many sources: The revolution has been hijacked and there is, in fact, not more, but less freedom now, and the trend is going in the wrong direction. I applaud the Egyptians who stand up to this, but the truth is that they risk getting raped and beaten to death when they do. How that is "more freedom and self-determination" than under Mubarak remains your secret.
     
  19. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    FB, just put him on ignore. Save yourself from the time wasted.
     
  20. da1

    da1 Member

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