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Stratfor's step by step guide to taking a dump on Venezuelan sovereignty

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Mathloom, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Oh believe me, I know.
     
  2. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    Yes but there are ways to visit if it's with certain groups, educational purposes going from a different country etc.
     
  3. AroundTheWorld

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    Yeah, I met some Americans while I was there.

    You know next to nothing.
     
  4. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    Uh... Stratfor is a private company.

    They are absolutely within their rights to write whatever the hell they want, in the same way tjat I can go down to the store and buy a copy of The Anarchist's Cookbook to learn techniques to overthrow the US Government.

    It only becomes an issue when you actually try to put the plan into action.
     
  5. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    [​IMG]

    The business of this private entity is to subvert Venezuelan people's rights in order to secure control of assets for private entities which dominate US politics. That's not a legitimate business. Some things can't be bought. What you can do in the US is irrelevant to what Stratfor can do in Venezuela. What Stratfor can do in Venezuela is up to the legitimate representative of the Venezuelan people to decide. They have decided that engineering protests and funding attempts at overthrowing the President is not legitimate. That's not up for negotiation with the representatives of the American people, or American people such as Stratfor.
     
  6. da1

    da1 Member

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    Lol. The people that left Cuba are the ones who were benefitting from a corrupt dictator. The people who are still in Cuba don't want them back. They were suffering either way, but are better off under Castros then being the untouchables of the previous society.
     
    2 people like this.
  7. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    No disrespect, but you obviously have no previous knowledge of what Stratfor is, and are making assumptions. [Insert truism about assumptions, you, and me] I used to subscribe to their newsletter in the late 90's before they put it behind a pay wall.

    They are not Blackwater (or Xe, or whatever they call themselves). They would best be described as a cross between Jane's and globalsecurity.org. Certainly they employ former CIA analyists, and I think one of the guys.who founded it was some sort of assistant director, but they don't actually do anything beyond talk.

    To quote a well known @ss and former politician, there's what you know, what you know you don't know, and what you don't know you don't know. Clearly, we are in the teritory of the third.
     
  8. AroundTheWorld

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    Full of fail.
     
  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I admit that I don't know anything about Stratfor and yes they can write whatever they want. That said the history of US intervention in South America, both by the US government and private corporations, should put something like this in a critical light.
     
  10. Nextup

    Nextup Member

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    Comparing Cuba to the USA is pointless. The real comparison is comparing cuba to other countries in the Caribbean. Would you rather live in the other countries in the Caribbean or central america?
     
  11. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    My point is. .
    if we are interfering with their ability to conduct proper business internationally
    How can we critisize their lack of industry?

    Kind of like KAreem goaltending then blaming spud webb for missing the shot.
    Until we lift the embargo . . .we can never know how truly good or bad their regime can be. . . .



    Rocket River
     
  12. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    No disrespect, but 99% of what me and you both know about Stratfor is in these leaks. Your signing up to the newsletter gives you zero insight into these particular issues. It gives you a good understanding of the face/marketing of Stratfor, but that is the least of anyone's worries. I used to buy Chiquita Bananas, that didn't tell me what the United Fruit Company stood for.

    I'm making no assumptions at all. If I had to make an assumption, it would be that Stratfor acts as a proxy for the CIA. That's an assumption. But what we do factually know from these leaks is that Stratfor more than marginally engages in activities to distort the outcome of democracy in Venezuela and actively attempts to steal people's rights in order to achieve greater economic opportunities for American interests.

    What you're describing as "action" is not Stratfor's business and no one is accusing them of going out in the streets and directly engaging in a rebellion. What you're describing as "just talk" is Stratfor's illegitimate business. What they are "saying" is not acceptable in Venezuela. If you think it should be acceptable in your country, you are a brave man given your astute knowledge of history.

    If the Iranian Revolutionary Guard established a Stratfor-like entity in Washington, it would never succeed in becoming a legal entity (likely on national security grounds), never mind disseminating methods of subverting the American democratic system, inflaming internal conflict into political chaos and stealing American citizens' rights. These are accusations typically directed at legitimate political opponents without evidence. You don't seem to grasp the significance of the fact that hard evidence has been uncovered that this was done, and by foreign (US) interests.
     
  13. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    This is one of the main reasons for the embargoes. If it is good for Cubans, it is bad for the image and plan of capitalist imperialism.

    If it works in Cuba, then Americans will want it. If Americans want it, then those who are dominating the economy and politics have the most to lose.
     
  14. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    So
    what you are saying is
    The U.S. Govt and the elites here
    have a VESTED INTEREST in doing everything in their power to make Cuba
    Fail . . . or at the very least appear to be a complete utter disaster

    so . . they do things to ensure its failure

    Rocket River
     
  15. AroundTheWorld

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    Yes - other countries.
     
  16. FranchiseBlade

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    Well, I believe they should have done what was necessary to remove the embargo. They didn't. The embargo has been there because the Castro regime is full of all kinds of problems and oppression. Remove that, then the embargo gets lifted.

    We do know that Castro did horrible things to Cubans. So in some ways we know how bad the regime was.

    The embargo may have been carried on too long. And it's definitely hurt Cuba's economy.
     
    #36 FranchiseBlade, Mar 4, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
  17. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    Unless John Pike, Andrew Exum, As'ad Abu Khalil, Nader Uskowi, and a thousand other well known analysts (many of whom are either indifferent or anti-US and would murder their children for a chance to expose such a thing) have all either been duped or recruited by the CIA as agents, you are wrong. Now, it is true that I have not confirmed the favt that this is not the case, I'd put the likelyhood of it being true right up there with the chance that the Pope and the Ayatollah of Iran are both secret agent of the Illuminati, another fact that I will admit that I can not deny with 100% certanty.

    Oh, there was also a very public event in which their servers were hacked by Anonymous and all of their email stolen off their servers revealing lots of embarasing info but with no indication of their status as CIA front, though I will admit that, again, I have not vetteded the hackers to confirm that the whole event was not a secret.CIA black flag operation. In this instance we would have to add Julian Assange to the ever growing list of CIA stooges.
     
    #37 Ottomaton, Mar 4, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
  18. Nextup

    Nextup Member

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    Sure you would, I'm sure you would prefer Guatemala, Haiti or the Dominican republic.
     
  19. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Obviously this is not the only reason, but one of many IMO.

    This summarizes my thoughts nicely:

     
  20. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Again, you are assuming the threshold is for us to discover that Stratfor is wholly owned or wholly controlled by the US intelligence agency. No such thing will ever happen because it is an intelligence agency. This tool or funnel called Stratfor does in fact do and say things which are easily equated to imperialistic ambitions and have close ties with the CIA.

    Analysts being anti-US or indifferent is irrelevant. The analysts only have to be anti-Chavez's party, which they are.

    There is no justification for creating and spreading the information which Stratfor does other than to obstruct Venezuela's democratic process, which is (Aside from the US) universally seen as robust. This is the equivalent of Hezbollah establishing an intelligence agenc in Washington in order to engineer riots and supply the tea party with strategy/information to subvert the democratic process. If it was the Cato Institute, then more power to them. But since it is Hezbollah, it is NOT ok. It is NOT just talk.

    To attempt to change the outcome of elections in another country is imperialistic at its core, and the close relationship Stratfor shares with US intelligence and CANVAS is damning in that respect. Again, you are right that there is no direct link, but the evidence is pretty bad, and history does not side with you at all on this one. You are making the same argument that was made for several private companies not directly linked to US government which ultimately ended up shattering the political desire of S Americans and in some cases going as far as arming, funding and providing logistical support to murderous militants.

    It is not the US' responsibility or jurisdiction to deal with this, and the US will claim as much if anything happens. This is up to Venezuela and Venezuelans, and the huge majority of them don't want what Stratfor does in their country based on what they know they know.
     

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