Would Ginobili have been better than Harden if he left the Spurs and been #1 option?

Ginobili couldn't stay healthy enough anyway and OP should have his thread-starting privileges taken away.

 

Thread isn't nearly as bad as a lot are making it out to be. I think it's actually a interesting question considering all the comparisons out there between Harden and Ginobilli. Personally, I don't think Manu as a #1 option would be able to match Harden's prolific scoring, but would probably be a better overall playmaker.

 

Harden's numbers are "inflated" by the style we play. More germaine to look at ppp (points per possession) that just ppg.
But everything is subjective - I just know Manu plays defense and Harden doesn't. Offensively, there wasn't anything I can think of Manu couldn't do that Harden can. Harden a better ball handler and better scorer off the bounce. Manu much better off the ball than Harden - which would work well with someone like Lin.

Love Harden though - wouldn't give him up for anyone but a handful of players right now.

 

Manu peaks at 3 NBA Championships, 1 Olympic Gold Medal (on which he was the best player on), and a EuroLeague Championship. He's also statistically been one of the most clutch players in the NBA.


/End thread

 

And the play style comparison is a bit overrated. Manu is a superb defender, and likely has the best court-vision of any NBA shooting guard.

A more accurate comparison would be Brandon Roy in his prime with the Trail Blazers to Harden right now. Both were superb scorers, had very deceptive moves, and were great slashing to the hoop despite not being on the same athletic level as other All-star slashing SGs like Kobe, Vince or Wade.

 

Harden is better at drawing and finishing with contact. He is actually better than Manu at his signature eurostep imo.

Overall though Manu would have been a better #1 option than Harden if we were going exclusively by their game though and didn't factor in injuries.

But it's hard to fairly compare considering one is at the twilight of his career and the other is just starting it.

 

No Finals MVP's, same # as Harden.

Oh, and Harden's got olympic gold as well.

Harden handed the Spurs their ass last year.


And he'll continue to, keep playing the what-if game though.

 

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=147202&highlight=Tmac+Ginobli

Glad to have Harden, would have loved to have Manu - even over Tmac...

DD

 

The thread is pretty pointless since we never had a choice between Ginobili or Harden. They are both great players. We'll revisit it once their careers are over as to who was better. It's also hard to speculate what Ginobili's numbers would be like playing without the best power forward of all time and an all star PG in Tony Parker. Nobody other than Harden on the Rockets is consistently drawing double teams like Duncan and Parker. The quality of defensive focus and defender assigned to the number one scoring option every game vs the 6th man off the bench is significant. This is Harden's first year with a new team that is the youngest in the NBA, so judging Ginobili's best with Harden's start isn't exactly fair. Likewise Ginobili has performed at a high level for years and Harden still has to prove that he can do it over the long term. There is no right answer at this point, it's just pure speculation.

 

Harden definitely has a lot of room to grow on D, but you have to consider the systems in which each of these players played.

Harden's scoring output is inflated due to the pace at which we play, but their scoring efficiency is very similar.

Because Harden is asked to carry a much bigger load on offense than Manu was, he exerts much more energy on offense (higher usage sustained over an average of ~10 min more per game). Harden can't dump it into the post and let Timmy go to work.

Manu's teams from 02-07 were some of the slowest paced teams in the league, and they were asked to play stay at home defense. Manu used to drive Pop crazy gambling on D, a very common criticism of Harden now.

Defense is hard enough to measure as it is, so some of the metrics available to compare these guys don't paint a complete picture, and beg a big "what if" being: what kind of defense would Harden be playing in those early 2000s Spurs teams?

 

As an addendum, I get the vibe that this Rockets squad is actually asked to gamble on defense to a certain degree, because they are so good at converting on the fast break opportunities that those gambles create.

Haven't heard this from the organization, maybe someone else can confirm or deny that.

 

Ginobli came in to this league at 25. Harden is still 23/24.

Also, we are basically comparing prime Ginobli with the current not-near-his prime Harden.

 

I think so. After Jordan, Wade and maybe Miller I'm taking Manu at SG

Ginobili only problem is that he's prone to injury. But his numbers have always been top 10 depite playing limited minutes with Duncan and Parker in a slow tempo team.

Playing as the lone star (higher usage) in Houston (for example) he would have averaged even more points and assists per 36min. And with more minutes his productivity would have been more appreciated

Manu is a Hall of Famer. Harden will be if he keeps it up

 

Manu's problem isn't lack of minutes, it's his style of play and health. He's like Dwade, and his body got destroyed like Dwade.

If Manu had unlimited durability he would probably go down as one of the best SGs ever, he'd be really close to MJ because he's pretty much complete, good O, good D, can drive, shoot, pass and freaking clutch.

 

Durability is the biggest issue preventing him from being a top 3 players, in a given season, in his prime. Ginobili is seriously underrated.

 

I love Harden but I put maybe. I wish we got to see Ginobli head his own team. I think he could have gone down as a top 10 SG of all time.

 

(I think Harden has the potential to go down as an all time great too)

 

Those are team accomplishments and therefore not relevant. We are comparing two players.

No way Ginobili puts up the numbers Harden is putting up this year, espeically not at age 23.