1) nice ad hominem attack. Pretty good move by your higher self-worth, "drug free" stature. 2) Why did you assume I'm atheist? I don't believe in organized religion. That's all. And no. I won't stop. Because too many people think religion is (especially Islam) is the means to all ends. That is nuts. When I went to Sunday school (Im an ex-Muslim) the main ideal that we were always taught was that Islam is better than all religions. We were not taught love, compassion, and open-mindedness. We were given hateful values. If I can say some "offensive" things and make religious people think about it, then I've done my job during my time on this Earth.
Agree with you on most things. I don't believe in organized religion either. I think most are money making schemes. But I had the opposite experience as you with Islam growing up. We were taught to love and respect all cultures and religions. After 9/11 Aga Khan also mentioned to the US Ismailis that our allegiance has to lie with our country before our religion. Of course its a very progressive form of Islam and that is why ass backwards folks like Adeel and trustnoone have a problem with it. In the end I think Gandhi said it best - "God has no religion"
Thank you for sharing your experience. It would explain the behavior of some posters like trustme and adeelsiddiqui on this forum if this is what they were taught. May I ask what brand of Islam that Sunday school was preaching (Sunni, Shiite...)?
I just wanted to hop in to respond to GanjaRocket, whose posts have really captured my attention. Going solely off of what you have divulged in this thread, you're a former Muslim who was turned off of Islam mainly by the acts of Muslims you've known or have interacted with in your upbringing (Islamic school etc.) and that contributed to your current disposition of disliking organized religion as a whole, particularly Islam because of what you have witnessed as bias, superiority, insensitivity etc. As a Muslim myself, I find your story (and stories similar to yours, of other ex-Muslims) saddening but at the same time helpful in better understanding the actions/behavior/tendencies of the Muslim community you dealt with and pinpointing the flaws and working to address those flaws. **IN MY OPINION**Largely, ex-Muslims get turned off of Islam not from the doctrine, teachings and principles but rather the actions/conduct of Muslims, which are usually contradictory to the teachings of Islam either through arrogance, ignorance, or a culture clash. In plain English, I'm saying that from my view, ex-Muslims arise due to the douchebaggery of some Muslims they deal with. In turn, they feel the religion as a whole teaches or is instructed to act in that way so they are turned off. I really sympathize with you in that respect because yes Indeed, I see in the community people who act in certain ways, teach and preach in such a way and its not exemplary to Islam and actually makes Islam unappealing. It's their own issues, their own psychological makeup or cultural traditions clouding their spirituality and common sense, their ignorance and/or failure of applying principles properly ie. putting a focus more on rituals and appearances rather than character, sensitivities and conduct. In the end, I would say to not paint the religion in one broad stroke. Usually the people that turn people off of the faith are idiots. The folks at Sunday schools are usually unqualified volunteers, more often than not from an immigrant background and have a one track mind/view of the world. Does a sucky teacher at Islamic school mean Islam as a whole sucks? I don't think so. I know that for you it's much more than what I presented that made you reach your decision I'm sure but I'm just simplifying it to make my point. The point being: separate the doer (imperfect, flawed human beings who happen to be Muslim) from the doctrine (The Quran and complementary texts and scriptures which serve as the guide to living a morally correct life believed to have come from a higher power like other scriptures before it.) Peace.
lulz I never said Allah physically wrote the Quran. He revealed it to Mohammed through the angel Gabriel. Those are His words, but not his handwriting. I'm not trying to insult Aga khani's, or judge them. I was just asking a question, it's not my fault if you read it in an angry, judgmental tone.
You just looooooove negative experiences people have with Islam. It's like you get a hard on off of it.
I think GanjaRocket is definitely someone trolling with a 2nd account. Probably ATW's boyfriend IZAKdavid.
If that's the case, I was wondering where he went. They usually tag team Muslim topics. I find it funny that people with such opposition/dislike of Islam go to such lengths to talk about it constantly and get frequent get into D&Ds about it. I dont like the Twilight series, but I wouldn't go so far as to start topics about how horrible Twilight is every chance I get and go on a full blown mission to have everyone else hate it as much as I do.
I'm not trolling. I really like a lot of the values Islam helped cement within me. Its just that I see leaving the strict following of one religion as a further step that everyone should try and take. what I saw with most muslims growing up (follower vs doctrine argument, I know) was that they were really gung-ho about ritual and protecting status-quo... which pretty much sabotages forward progress another thing I noticed amongst peer groups was the incredible amount of "backbiting" that occurs among muslims. The "he, she did this/that" gossip that circulates whenever someone does something "sinful" so I decided to leave all those religion driven peer groups.
I liked the reply below by stthomsfinest as it encapsulates what I'd also say. To further add - I appreciate having my beliefs challenged. A skeptic nourishes the mind of a true believer. For a religion like Islam, which cherishes the pursuit of knowledge and inquiry, someone like you shouldn't be dismissed because of 'comical offensiveness' (I don't speak for any posters on CF, just generally). My grandfather and father often questioned my beliefs when I was younger using the ideas of Descartes, Darwin, Kant, and other greats. They are skeptics, and many in my community don't respect them as a result. Over the years, their logical attacks chipped away what I later realized were cultural/man-made constructs that many Pakistanis call Islam. I became agnostic until I attended college. There, after delving into all the major world religions, and studying the humanities and sciences, I became a Muslim again. I would be narrow-minded to dismiss someone simply for using cannabis. Part of my education involved neuroscience, molecular biology, and personally experimenting with various psychoactive drugs. Some of the ideas during these trips - the conversations and discussions I had with friends of other beliefs while under the influence- all impacted me greatly. They'd question me for hours about Islam since I was the only Muslim there. What emerged after all these experiences in college and university are ideas that I'm largely comfortable with today. They are nothing like the Islam I grew up around. These days I also shun organized religion. I have only my mind, my books, and many years of higher education to give me faith. Sometimes, I gaze at the night sky with my family, and we ponder rapturously at the far away majesty of Andromeda as it hurtles at us at 250k miles/hr. I never felt that way when I was younger. Apparently, many people still never do. I realized that my family, and a few like-minded relatives are a minority. Most of us became secular after exploring the world and meeting new people. We are closer to Sunni on paper, but most Sunnis would ostracize us. But that doesn't bother us. We respect and love people of all beliefs because of a core Islamic idea called tawhid which love somewhat describes. It's oneness with you and God, with you and all other people, you and Nature, and with yourself. Many Muslims don't practice tawhid. That's why I don't socialize with some Muslims in my community because they gossip and judge too quickly, and they cast Islam in a negative light. I don't wish them any ill-will. I understand that they were raised with without full understanding of freedom of expression and Western notions of liberty. Islam, as I see it, is not incompatible with the above. TL;DR I hope this long, rambling post shows you that there is beautiful diversity in all things including much-maligned faiths like Islam. Unfortunately, like many faiths, what should be rarely matches what is. Please don't lose faith (no pun intended) just because of other people even if their behaviour and numbers are overwhelming. They possibly are just as misguided as I may be. In the end, we all of us will answer for our brief time on this planet. Salam!
Where can a dude just get some good, humanly killed, cleaned beef!?! I don't care if its from a Scientologist!
Dmc- very interesting Your experience is very similar to mine. I have the utmost faith in what you call oneness, or tawhid. I just don't believe it's necessary to participate in ritual to increase my understanding of it. That's what living a full life is for.
