Presti's biggest mistake wasn't choosing Westbrook over Harden (even though I think Harden will prove to be better in the long run). His mistake was not amnestying Perkins so that he could offer Harden the max and keep Durant, Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka. His second mistake is underestimating how good harden would be. Morey gambled he was a franchise player and won. While presto got a pretty good haul, had he known Harden could be this good he would have been able to get a lot more. Presti had Harden for three years and failed to properly value him. That's a mistake. I still respect Presti tons, but the lost this deal because he shouldn't have made the deal. BTW Bill Simmons said the warriors turned down harden for Klay Thompson and the Wizs turned down harden for Bradley beal. If true, how stupid must they feel?
Uh what? Check out the WESTBRICK thread, it was created before Harden came to Houston. Harden oth, laid a goose egg against Miami but he was the guy who allowed them to get there, in the same playoff run he dominated the Spurs. A lot of casual fans see WB and Harden the same way you did, but a significant number of analysts already saw Harden's value as a max player. Westbrook has his own share of supporters, but he also has his own detractors because he's in the same mold as Melo/Iverson, big time players, but extremely inconsistent. In terms of trade value, Harden has more value because at the time he was traded, he only made 5M a year (max extension would start next year) while Westbrook was already making the max. For example, they offered the Wiz Harden for Beal straight up. They couldn't do that with WB because he was making the max, and would need to trade him a team with capspace/expiring, or get players they don't want who'd be making a huge salary. Other posters are talking about amnestying Perks, and that might be good but "amnesty" means giving up a ton of cash for nothing. Not every owner can do that, they'd have to buy out Perks' 3 year deal at 9M a year, then they'd be capped out with no frontcourt player apart from Ibaka. That would result in a "worse" version of OKC last year, and if they couldn't beat Miami last year why will they beat OKC this year when they lost a player? Worse, what if Miami signs Perks next year at 2 years, vet min in free agency? OKC would have just dug their own grave, while still shelling out 9M a year for 3 years.
So you would bet on OKC vs Heat in the Finals now that Harden is gone? I don't think so. They may not even make the Finals. Fact is, the trade weakened OKC. That isn't even a debatable point. To clear salary, Presti could have amnestied Perk this coming summer. If he traded Harden because of a $6 million difference ($58MM vs $52MM) over 4 years, it was a HUGE mistake. Go ahead and argue Presti got the most he could in a trade. That is probably correct. But the decision to make the trade is was the error. Don't even get me started about coach Bonehead.
Rondo is a lockerroom psychopath that not even Doc Rivers, KG & PP can control. Scott Brooks wouldn't have a clue how to handle him. There's a reason the Celtics have dangled him as trade bait for the last 3 seasons.
He's also overrated. Rondo is a good PG, that's about it, and his mental issues make him a mediocre value asset. 80% of Westbrook's production could have been replicated by another combo-guard like Ty Lawson or Jrue Holiday. In a league stacked with talent at the PG position I would be apprehensive in handing out a max contract to a PG.
If he couldn't afford to amnesty Perkins then they should have traded Ibaka instead. Remember Ibaka had as much value as Harden - 1/2 the writers preferred Ibaka over Harden at the time (they have since been proven wrong). In any case perkins was overpaid. That was a mistake by Presti. Still think Presti is great; just goes to show you can't bat 100%.
Why would you trade Ibaka and have 3 perimeter guys making the max? That doesn't make a lick of sense. Yes, the Perkins trade was indeed a mistake by Presti. I still don't think trading Harden was mistake, with WB entrenched as the sidekick there was definitely no room for him in OKC.
Harden's stats in OKC: 16.8 pts, 4 rebs, 3 assists TS% 0.660 Martin's stats in OKC: 15 pts, 2.3 rebs, 1.2 assists 0.618 TS% 0.618 It made them weaker, but not by much, esp. when you include the lottery pick, Jeremy Lamb as a prospect and they cleared Cole Adlritch off the books. Obviously Harden is so much better than Martin it isn't even funny, but even when his TS% was off the charts Harden only got so much shots because at the end of the day he was still a 3rd fiddle in OKC. There's no room for him there, not with WB jacking up shots like there's not tom.
So your argument is one clutchfans thread? And my argument is 2x 2nd-team All-NBA? You are honestly telling me that cancels each other out? Can you tell me these analysts? Because when the trade went down, and I started to read all the national people breaking down Harden, only big stat geek types thought highly of Harden.
I know hindsight is 20/20. But, if the thunder had to do it over, wouldn't a better route have been trade Ibaka to Milwaukee for Larry Sanders and keep harden instead.
I guess you haven't seen Harden at all this season? After getting his rump handed to him in the Finals, it's clear he's picked up his game. Comparing K-Mart this year to Harden last year misses the point completely. When you are a championship contender and you trade away one of the best closers in the NBA for a soft touch like K-Mart, you've made a mistake. Saying there is no room for Harden at OKC makes no sense at all. There was room enough last year and they made the Finals.
Said it when it happened. When you have a shot at the championship you take it. Even if you have to break up the team. Not only that, but they traded him at the start of the year. They could have given it some time, traded him this week or at least thought about this longer and made sure it was Harden who they had to trade. Either way, just letting him walk would have been better because they had a legit shot at the championship. If you win that, that is something that lasts forever. Something the city, players, organization will never forget.
I thought it was safe to assume that I felt the current year's team is weaker post trade. I assumed wrong. At the time of the trade, I had hoped some of the youngin's would step up to fill the gap between Martin and Harden... hasn't happened. Won't happen this year at least. As I posted after the one you quoted: I can't argue about amnestying Perkins instead. I can only assume Presti was worried about the Lakers and their destiny to break the season win record. (That and the okc ownership group is comprised of Sarver clones and OKC is destined for a long journey of despair.)
Rondo is an elite PG. The Celtics would have never come close to winning a championship without him. He may have issues, but so does Westbrook. At least Rondo would realize that Durant is the #1 and set him up to succeed. Rondo vs. Westbrook
He wouldn't put on much better stats than he did last year if he stayed in the same role. He was also barely taking any shots in the clutch, he took just 11 shots last season: http://bkref.com/tiny/tTyhX By any objective measure OKC is better team than they were last year, mostly because of Durant and improved role players(Sefolosha, Collison, Ibaka). They'll be favorites with HCA in the finals if the make it.
Just don't pay attention to dudes like that... It's apparently the trendy thing to do on this site...call any highly regarded player "overrated" just to stir controversy. You see it with just about every star player to at least some degree...
The argument for Rondo being overrated is how terrible the Celtics offense has been for years. Basically since KG's knee gave out in 2009-10. The celtics offense has still had pieces but the reason they are successful is their defense.
