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[Woj] Asik & Parsons non-starter in Smith trade talk

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by hooroo, Feb 21, 2013.

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danoman Member

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Smoke screen, Morey is playing chess with these GM's.

#81 danoman, Feb 21, 2013

OremLK Member

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ArtV said: ↑

The Hawks have no leverage. They don't want to sign him for the max and some GM out there is going to do something stupid like that.

Smith will be traded to the highest bidder today which IMO won't be that much.
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The thing to think about is, Atlanta is still in the playoff picture in the East, and they can benefit from "renting" Smith just as much as anybody else. I think there is a real chance none of the offers are good enough for them to bite, and they just hold onto him and see what happens in the offseason.

#82 OremLK, Feb 21, 2013
Jamers Member

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Goat Herders said: ↑

The more and more you are starting to realize it? It's been pretty obvious from day one which is exactly why Atlanta is going to get between little-and-nothing for the guy. Humpheries/Brooks/pick from Jersey is my guess. No, Houston isn't giving up two starters for Josh smith. If he were locked in to a friendly deal for 2.5 more years? It would be a big consideration. But not as it is.

I understand some folks don't like Smith for....whatever reason. He is an undisciplined shooter that has taken way too many long twos in the last season and a half. But he is a phenomenal help defender (which is a big deal when Harden and Lin are responsible for guarding the backcourt), a skilled passer, and excellent in transition. He can finish at the rim on PnR and in traffic. For this team, the ONLY thing not to like is his recent shot selection, which may have been born of necessity in Atlanta rather than hubris.

For those worried about his max deal: so what? The only other FA this summer worth a max deal is Howard. Would you like to save the money to give to Iggy in 2014? Lebron isn't coming here. Carmelo isn't coming here. Kobe isn't coming here. The only risk to signing smith to a max deal is the possibility that Parsons gets sniped by someone else at some point. I think that's a problem worth worrying about in 2-3 years instead of tomorrow. We spent years talking about how having assets was getting us nowhere until *boom* the Harden trade. Now, cap space is the most valuable thing we have...let's not spend the next 3 years sitting on it wondering if someone incrementally better or slightly more affordable than Josh Smith is on the way. 16ppg, 9rpg, 4apg, 2bpg and stellar defense? Check please, sign me up.

I'm hopeful we don't trade for him today for any price greater than, say, Jones or Robinson and the two 2's we picked up yesterday but only because I think signing him outright is realistic. But anyone saying they don't want Smith on this team in the future is not evaluating it clearly IMO.
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bingo

#83 Jamers, Feb 21, 2013
W22_STREAK Member

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I really thought the Suns or the Nets, especially the Suns, would have a super offer alongs the lines of Expiring contract + 2 first rounders for Smith. Turns out those teams didn't want Smith that much!! WoW!!! And you know when Morey is offering he isn't gonna offer anymore than a low-ball offer hahahaha

#84 W22_STREAK, Feb 21, 2013
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Sweet Lou 4 2 said: ↑

where did the darrell murray meme start? i've seen it mentioned for years now but cant remember the original thread.
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I don't think it was one specific instance, rather multiple instances of posters misspelling his name.

It really isn't that hard to spell but this meme always cracks me up.

#85 Someguy1229, Feb 21, 2013
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Sam Amick ‏@sam_amick
Rockets were sitting the J-Smoove groove out since they could sign as free agent,but can negotiate w/out pressure. - http://usat.ly/15793ko

#86 J.R., Feb 21, 2013
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>The Rockets, flush with assets, are involved at "high level" in Josh Smith talks, league source says.</p>— Ken Berger (@KBergCBS) <a href="https://twitter.com/KBergCBS/status/304593656944410624">February 21, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

#87 LCAhmed, Feb 21, 2013

Aruba77 Member

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Goat Herders said: ↑

The more and more you are starting to realize it? It's been pretty obvious from day one which is exactly why Atlanta is going to get between little-and-nothing for the guy. Humpheries/Brooks/pick from Jersey is my guess. No, Houston isn't giving up two starters for Josh smith. If he were locked in to a friendly deal for 2.5 more years? It would be a big consideration. But not as it is.

I understand some folks don't like Smith for....whatever reason. He is an undisciplined shooter that has taken way too many long twos in the last season and a half. But he is a phenomenal help defender (which is a big deal when Harden and Lin are responsible for guarding the backcourt), a skilled passer, and excellent in transition. He can finish at the rim on PnR and in traffic. For this team, the ONLY thing not to like is his recent shot selection, which may have been born of necessity in Atlanta rather than hubris.

For those worried about his max deal: so what? The only other FA this summer worth a max deal is Howard. Would you like to save the money to give to Iggy in 2014? Lebron isn't coming here. Carmelo isn't coming here. Kobe isn't coming here. The only risk to signing smith to a max deal is the possibility that Parsons gets sniped by someone else at some point. I think that's a problem worth worrying about in 2-3 years instead of tomorrow. We spent years talking about how having assets was getting us nowhere until *boom* the Harden trade. Now, cap space is the most valuable thing we have...let's not spend the next 3 years sitting on it wondering if someone incrementally better or slightly more affordable than Josh Smith is on the way. 16ppg, 9rpg, 4apg, 2bpg and stellar defense? Check please, sign me up.

I'm hopeful we don't trade for him today for any price greater than, say, Jones or Robinson and the two 2's we picked up yesterday but only because I think signing him outright is realistic. But anyone saying they don't want Smith on this team in the future is not evaluating it clearly IMO.
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excellent points. Smith is more than worth having, and i do believe that if we trade for him, we'll be able to retain him ...not even for the max, as we will just give him an extra year with a lower annual salary. But i would be pretty damn frugal, as you advocate, in dealing with Atl. Jones and a pick with expiring contracts at most. And btw: im not sure that Jones isn't better than TRob at this point. I don;'t think anyone really knows how good either player can be.

#88 Aruba77, Feb 21, 2013
ashiin Member

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We won't have enough to sign both Smith AND Howard do we?

#89 ashiin, Feb 21, 2013
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Goat Herders said: ↑

The more and more you are starting to realize it? It's been pretty obvious from day one which is exactly why Atlanta is going to get between little-and-nothing for the guy. Humpheries/Brooks/pick from Jersey is my guess. No, Houston isn't giving up two starters for Josh smith. If he were locked in to a friendly deal for 2.5 more years? It would be a big consideration. But not as it is.

I understand some folks don't like Smith for....whatever reason. He is an undisciplined shooter that has taken way too many long twos in the last season and a half. But he is a phenomenal help defender (which is a big deal when Harden and Lin are responsible for guarding the backcourt), a skilled passer, and excellent in transition. He can finish at the rim on PnR and in traffic. For this team, the ONLY thing not to like is his recent shot selection, which may have been born of necessity in Atlanta rather than hubris.

For those worried about his max deal: so what? The only other FA this summer worth a max deal is Howard. Would you like to save the money to give to Iggy in 2014? Lebron isn't coming here. Carmelo isn't coming here. Kobe isn't coming here. The only risk to signing smith to a max deal is the possibility that Parsons gets sniped by someone else at some point. I think that's a problem worth worrying about in 2-3 years instead of tomorrow. We spent years talking about how having assets was getting us nowhere until *boom* the Harden trade. Now, cap space is the most valuable thing we have...let's not spend the next 3 years sitting on it wondering if someone incrementally better or slightly more affordable than Josh Smith is on the way. 16ppg, 9rpg, 4apg, 2bpg and stellar defense? Check please, sign me up.

I'm hopeful we don't trade for him today for any price greater than, say, Jones or Robinson and the two 2's we picked up yesterday but only because I think signing him outright is realistic. But anyone saying they don't want Smith on this team in the future is not evaluating it clearly IMO.
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GREAT POST.

It seems some guys here would only offer Tyler Honeycutt for him and even then they would demand an extra first round pick from the Hawks, for us to take on the "d-league scrub level" Josh Smith.

excellent analysis

I'd give up T-Rob + Motiejunas for Smith.

#90 W22_STREAK, Feb 21, 2013
Jamers Member

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sign dwight in the offseason and trade for josh smith now, it's not our money to begin with.. we have Lin, a money maker from china, we can afford going over the tax :grin:

#91 Jamers, Feb 21, 2013
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Goat Herders said: ↑

The more and more you are starting to realize it? It's been pretty obvious from day one which is exactly why Atlanta is going to get between little-and-nothing for the guy. Humpheries/Brooks/pick from Jersey is my guess. No, Houston isn't giving up two starters for Josh smith. If he were locked in to a friendly deal for 2.5 more years? It would be a big consideration. But not as it is.

I understand some folks don't like Smith for....whatever reason. He is an undisciplined shooter that has taken way too many long twos in the last season and a half. But he is a phenomenal help defender (which is a big deal when Harden and Lin are responsible for guarding the backcourt), a skilled passer, and excellent in transition. He can finish at the rim on PnR and in traffic. For this team, the ONLY thing not to like is his recent shot selection, which may have been born of necessity in Atlanta rather than hubris.

For those worried about his max deal: so what? The only other FA this summer worth a max deal is Howard. Would you like to save the money to give to Iggy in 2014? Lebron isn't coming here. Carmelo isn't coming here. Kobe isn't coming here. The only risk to signing smith to a max deal is the possibility that Parsons gets sniped by someone else at some point. I think that's a problem worth worrying about in 2-3 years instead of tomorrow. We spent years talking about how having assets was getting us nowhere until *boom* the Harden trade. Now, cap space is the most valuable thing we have...let's not spend the next 3 years sitting on it wondering if someone incrementally better or slightly more affordable than Josh Smith is on the way. 16ppg, 9rpg, 4apg, 2bpg and stellar defense? Check please, sign me up.

I'm hopeful we don't trade for him today for any price greater than, say, Jones or Robinson and the two 2's we picked up yesterday but only because I think signing him outright is realistic. But anyone saying they don't want Smith on this team in the future is not evaluating it clearly IMO.
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What a great post. Repped.

#92 rockets88MT, Feb 21, 2013
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W22_STREAK said: ↑

I'd give up T-Rob + Motiejunas for Smith.
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Hell no!

#93 Aruba77, Feb 21, 2013

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Lol Hawks must be out of their mind. They need to take whatever Morey or any other GM is offering them. Or see him walk away in offseason for NOTHING.

#94 DreaMac, Feb 21, 2013
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Teams know that Josh Smith isn't worth the max so giving up players and other assets aren't worth it. If Atlanta trades, its gonna be a highway robbery for the other team. Unless the team is like the Kings who have an incapable management.

#95 The Stig, Feb 21, 2013
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Clutch said: ↑

Or if they want T-Rob, then I could see them asking for their first round pick (from the T-Will trade) back. Daryl is that cold-blooded.

My only concern here would be that the need for an experienced four (which they don't have right now) gets them to bite -- I could honestly see that. I really, really hope not. Otherwise, Rockets have the leverage to wait until free agency.
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That would be cold-blooded if we got a pick in return.

Although we have all the leverage in the world to wait it out(hence the lowball offers), I do think there is value in trading for Josh Smith now.

1. We get to see how he meshes with the team before committing to a heavy investment. Defensively I believe he will provide a huge boost, this is his main value. Offensively there will be question marks. How much will he hurt our spacing? How much will he help our fast break? I think it is crucial to answer these questions in the next few months as well as in a playoffs setting, before locking him up for 5 years during Harden's prime. The importance of this is cannot be understated.

2. With Smith, this team will be fighting for homecourt. A deep run in the playoffs for the youngest team in the league will prove invaluable.

3. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't trading for Smith the only way we can sign both him and Howard? By signing Howard outright, and then you are allowed to go over the cap to resign your own player(Smith)?

#96 CXbby, Feb 21, 2013
mirus Member

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Rockets coach Kevin McHale is clearly hoping the cap room is eventually spent on a big-time player, though he's not about to assume as much.

"I've never seen Cap Room score a basket yet though," McHale said recently. "I've seen old Cap, and his last name is Room, I've yet to see him put a hoop in, haven't seen him block a shot, haven't seen him get a rebound yet. But when Cap Room starts putting up numbers, we should be in great shape."

Jokes aside, McHale said Houston has plenty to offer prospective free agents.

"It's a good city," he said. "It's a city, I think, that people want to come to; a lot of players live there in the offseason. I think it's a nice draw. And then having a guy like James, of course, is a big draw."
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...yl-morey-plans-free-agency-offseason/1918747/

#97 mirus, Feb 21, 2013
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ashiin said: ↑

We won't have enough to sign both Smith AND Howard do we?
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Hell no. We just barely have the max to offer in the offseason. Only way to clear enough for both would be to dump both Lin and Asik for expirings, and you can bet that's not happening.

Only scenario where we get both that I could see? Lin + Asik to LA for Dwight, and miscellaneous pieces to ATL for Smith. Then you've got a Harden, Dwight, Smith big three, but you're severely lacking at point guard.

#98 OremLK, Feb 21, 2013

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Clutch said: ↑

I don't know what other teams are offering for Josh Smith, but knowing Daryl Morey, he's probably not even offering T-Rob. I could see him offering Garcia and Honeycutt and then one or two of Jones, Motiejunas, Royce White. I doubt Delfino is out there, but he too is an expiring and could prove important there.

Or if they want T-Rob, then I could see them asking for their first round pick (from the T-Will trade) back. Daryl is that cold-blooded.

My only concern here would be that the need for an experienced four (which they don't have right now) gets them to bite -- I could honestly see that. I really, really hope not. Otherwise, Rockets have the leverage to wait until free agency.
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#99 clubberclyde, Feb 21, 2013

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The Dream Shake ‏@DreamShakeSBN
Thanks to @jericoATL for pointing out that 45 day restriction on packaging players doesn't apply to Rockets, who are under the cap.
Expand

#100 mirus, Feb 21, 2013

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