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Official Fire McHale Thread

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by FTW Rockets FTW, Apr 19, 2012.

  1. LosPollosHermanos

    Supporting Member

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    http://www.nba.com/hoop/the_201213_nba_halftime_award_2013_02_13.html



    To all the people who claim the rockets are under-performing or Mchale this blah blah, these are actual NBA rankings and not some bleacher report/hoopsworld journalism.



    THE TEAM OF THE YEAR


    Well, we know this question cannot answer itself until June during the 2013 NBA Finals. But we definitely are seeing a separation of tiers. And the teams on the top tier are undoubtedly the Spurs, Thunder and Heat. San Antonio is especially impressive because it has posted the NBA's best record (42-12, projected to win 63 games, in spite of injuries to Duncan (10 games), Ginobili (13) and Kawhi Leonard (21). Oklahoma City has surprised all by losing Harden and getting better, thanks to the continued development of Durant and Westbrook, along with the continual chemistry growth amongst the Thunder's core players. Miami has risen above the East by coasting to a 35-14 mark, with virtually nobody doubting they will not appear in the Heat's third straight Finals, as long as the Big 3 can stay healthy through June

    Tier One: San Antonio Spurs, Oklahoma City Thunder, Miami Heat
    Tier Two: Los Angeles Clippers, New York Knicks, Indiana Pacers, Golden State Warriors, Houston Rockets, Denver Nuggets, Memphis Grizzlies, Chicago Bulls, Boston Celtics
    Tier Three: Atlanta Hawks, Los Angeles Lakers, Milwaukee Bucks, Brooklyn Nets, Utah Jazz, Dallas Mavericks, New Orleans Hornets, Portland Trail Blazers, Philadelphia 76ers, Toronto Raptors, Minnesota Timberwolves
    Tier Four: Detroit Pistons, Washington Wizards, Cleveland Cavaliers, Phoenix Suns, Sacramento Kings, Orlando Magic, Charlotte Bobcats.


    THE MOST SURPRISING TEAM OF THE YEAR


    ESPN now projects the Rockets to win 47 games this year, but I defy anyone to show me anybody in October that predicted this Houston team would: A. make the playoffs; or, B. win 40-something games. Even with the big-money additions of Harden, Asik and Lin, nobody thought Houston would become a playoff contender with this core team. Sure, we all thought the Rockets had a good future with great salary-cap maneuverability in the year to come. But a shot at 45 wins now? Nobody thought that. Chalk it up to a smart-working team that studies harder than the rest.

    1. Houston Rockets; 2. Golden State Warriors; 3. Portland Trail Blazers.
     
  2. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    1.
    2. Motiejunas, while skilled, clearly lacks the bulk and strength to regularly bang, and defense is more important than offense for PFs given that Harden and Lin handle the ball most of the time anyways as opposed to the fact that bigs are generally involved on defense. Jones in his time in the D-League needs more work adjusting to the NBA as well. White is White.
    3. Being an undersized SG is okay when you have James Harden. Beverley is good and it's clear from the fact that he sort of plays one or the other that he's not completely shut out of the rotation, but he's also inexperienced.
    4. The Wolves didn't play rookies for the sake of playing rookies or because of fatigue, they played rookies because their starters are all injured. Morey stated in an interview that coaches don't like to throw rookies out there because you really don't know what they're doing.
    5. Asik has clear stamina issues, it was something that was discussed when we signed whether he could keep up his defensive prowess playing more minutes. So obviously someone has to play backup C. And I don't get the Aldrich whining largely because I don't view Smith as any really better.
    6. Prove that.

    McHale's not great, by any stretch of the imagination. But I don't think firing him and hiring Mike Brown or Larry Brown or whomever is really going to change things significantly, and so really don't see the cries to fire him now.
     
  3. jeddah

    jeddah Member

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    Top 5 in Scoring I believe...because if you mean Top 5 Player, I have a lot of those my mind...

    Kobe
    Lebron
    KD
    Melo
    TParker
    Wade
    ....
    ....
    and so forth..

    * those list are randomly numbered...
     
  4. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    The only three players who are clearly above Harden are Lebron, Durant, and Paul. Anyone else, you can make an argument that Harden is superior. So yeah, he could be top 5 ( though I rank him 7, but it doesn't take away from the fact that you don't take the ball away from a guy that awesome)
     
  5. jeddah

    jeddah Member

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    Though I love my Rockets but I still believe that Harden has a long way to go before he'll reach the top 5 ..He has to overtake a lot of elite veterans to do that..But yes, I agree, when it comes to Rockets you can't take away that ball from him because clearly, he's the best player among'st them..
     
  6. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    He's putting up 26-5-5 on very good efficiency and leading a team which really isn't all that great aside from him to the playoffs. I literally don't know anyone who thinks Harden isn't a top 10 player, so I'm not sure how you think Harden "has a long way to go." He's almost there.
     
  7. RickyNewport

    RickyNewport Member

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    LeBron is just great, but Durant and Paul wouldn't have this Rockets team over .500 in the west. So it's arguable because we've seen Durant and Paul on teams like Harden is on and took their team straight to the lottery. And they had Westbrook and West.
     
  8. jeddah

    jeddah Member

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    Yes he does, he has yet to learn how to commit himself at the defensive end just like any other Superstars do...nad we are talking of Top 5 ( elite ) so that's why I said harden is not one of them...it's almost the same with Melo, a lot of people aren't convince of his Superstar status because of his Defense...Just like a lot of people say, Defense will bring you to the Play-offs..so unless Harden commits himself to it, a lot will still be unconvinced of his status ( not efficiency ).

    And I beg to disagree if you say that Rockets players are not that great aside from Harden...Harden can't carry this team all by himself ( see Lebron in Cleveland, Kyrie in Cleveland ) ..can u actually say that Rockets will be at the Play-off contention right now only because of Harden?..There are a lot of players who contributed a lot to the team...

    Asik - without him, a lot of our games will be a loss instead of a win..though lots are complaining about his butterfinger but look at the bright side, he's been a beast in Rebounding and in protecting the rim..

    PPat and Morris - though a lot also complains about their offensive struggles ( sometimes ) but they tried to compensate it at the defensive end..they may get burned sometimes but they show tenacity and that is just what you need from these players...and they are showing progress at the Rebounding end too..

    Parsons - all around player. He is neutralizing some of the league's great SF's in man-to-man defense.

    Delfino - his 3-point shooting had given us a lot of wins than loses...

    Lin - had given cohesion to our team offense. Without him there will be a lot of loses than Wins even with Harden around because no one can smoothly run our offense aside than him.

    And since this is a McHale thread, I believe that McHale will eventually be a good and perfect Coach for the Rockets. Just give him this season to learn the tendencies of his players and let's see what will happen next season...
     
  9. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    I think the defense concerns are overrated. Besides which one of his competitors are great defenders persay? Melo isn't, Kobe isn't. Out of his competitors, I'd say Westbrook, Duncan, and Wade are better defenders, but they have other reasons to be inferior to Harden (inefficiency, not playing heavy minutes, and being the second option, respectively).

    The only things Harden to me has to do for me to put him in top 5 at this point are to maintain his play for an entire season and bring it in the playoffs as the #1 option. Regular season wise, he's done everything we can expect from him and more.

    I think the Rockets with Kevin Martin instead of Harden would be Phoenix bad AT BEST. Harden can't carry a team like Lebron can ( though he can like Wade did when Wade had a crap supporting cast around him post-Shaq and pre-Lebron). The team wouldn't be any better defensively and would be a mediocre offensive unit ( like the stats say the team becomes when Harden sits). Asik and Parsons are good, but they aren't any better than say, Gortat and Dudley.
     
  10. gengar

    gengar Member

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    the point is that Lin should be given 1st usage rate because it helps play to Lin's strengths as well as Harden. Harden playing the point AND being the main scorer exhausts him. And Harden makes more successful shots if he gets them from assists rather than him just trying to force a contested shot by bringing it him himself
     
  11. jeddah

    jeddah Member

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    Melo has elevated his defense this season..Kobe, I firmly believe is a fairly good defender ( he got rings for it )..and that where lies our problem is, still a lot of people are believing that Duncan, albeit his limited minutes are still a superstar , Wade being the second fiddle to Lebron is still a superstar...why, because they brought their team to a Championship..Westbrook and Durant brought their team in the first round..So unless we reach the first round, we still can't claim that Harden is a Top Five..he has to earn it...yes, he is there at the top 10 but those top 5 are reserved for those who had earned it...

    Strongly disagree..I am the type of person that don't deal with " What if's " because we clearly are not in the position to know what will happen. There are games this season that causes us a Win because we rely heavily to Harden..In which, there might be a better result when our players are not relying most of the time to him..

    I still remember in one article I've read that Houston's defensive efficiency goes up higher when Harden sits ( it was backed up by a stat but I'm too lazy to search for it ). I won't call it Mediocre offensive Unit because if we remove Harden's score against their average score, we are still capable.

    For example, the 2 games where Harden sits due to Injury;

    Dec 10 against Spurs - 126 ( lost by 8 in OT )
    Feb 13 against Clippers - 96 ( lost by 10 )

    These two can be a good example of what your comment states above..

    I can't make a claim against Lin and Asik because they haven't missed a game so far..But for fun purposes, let's say, we take in consideration those 7 losing streaks when most people say Lin was nowhere to be found...Harden still plays at the same efficiency during that stretch but Lin was struggling...thus the 7-loosing streak....

    But anyway, this discussion is fun all the same..I like Harden a lot since he is playing with the Rockets together with Lin...and I am pretty sure that he'll bring this team to greater heights in the future...
     
  12. cw3k

    cw3k Member

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    Lin was struggling because he was not used right. Why you want someone who has demonstrated that he cannot sink a 3 standing on the wring waiting for the pass?

    Harden on that stretch, should put up 50 points a game. He has every position on ISO. I know it is not his fault. It's the great McHale's thought up, state of the art offensive system: ISO Harden, everyone just wait at the 3s. No PnR. No defense. It will be selected as a hall of frame play.
     
  13. NotApollo33

    NotApollo33 Member

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    Bron is the play initiater in clutch situations. He gets trapped hard and doubled but he initiates and takes it in hard. Left or right, bank shot or layup. He can post up left or right. Pull up or take it in or dish.

    This is the same with Kobe and KD, CP3.

    Harden however. Can't go right. Is highly turnover prone is trapped or doubled hard. And is therefore not that effective in clutch situations when fouls aren't called. His defense is also suspect.
     
  14. pnr

    pnr Member

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    Harden needs to step up his defense to be considered top 5 player overall. He is in my top 10 right now but could be top 5 if he consistently gives effort on the defensive end.
     
  15. Patterned919

    Patterned919 Member

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    Harden could be argued to be top 5. I actually had this conversation like a week ago. Everyone agreed he was somewhere between 4-8. In terms of points per FGA, I think the only superstar player above him is Durant. He's higher than Lebron, Melo, Kobe, etc.
     
  16. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    If the Rockets offered the Heat Harden for Wade straight up, they'd jump on it.

    If the Rockets offered the Spurs Harden for Parker straight up, they'd jump on it.

    If the Rockets offered the Lakers Harden for Kobe straight up, they'd jump on it.

    Of course some of those deals couldn't really be done because the money wouldn't work, but don't undervalue Harden. He's arguably the best SG in the entire league already and he hasn't even hit his prime.
     
  17. Patterned919

    Patterned919 Member

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    I can't remember one championship team, atleast in recent times, where the highest usage rate was a non elite player. I mean, Lebron in 12', Nowitzki in 11', Kobe in 10' and 09', Garnett in '08, Parker in '07, Wade in 06', Duncan in '05. Hardly any of those guys are point guards and they are all superstars. The only team would probably be the Pistons because they didn't have an elite player, even then though it wasn't Billups with the highest usage rate, it was Rip.

    Having Jeremy Lin have the highest usage rate on a team with Harden on it is unprecedented. Harden is 7th in the league in usage rate, guess whose above him? Melo, Westbrook, Kobe, Irving, Wall, Lebron. Don't you think Jeremy Lin would stand out a little if Jeremy Lin was in Harden's place? Don't you think it would be just a little odd? Maybe you're being a little bias?

    Usage rate isn't calculated by how many seconds you have the ball, it's calculated by how many possessions are used by the player, FGA, FTA, assist, TO, etc. It's basically a direct stat on their offensive influence on the game. Why wouldn't you want to maximize Harden's influence, especially on this team?
     
  18. rolyat93

    rolyat93 Member

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    The list is really debatable, but the point stands that Harden is by far our best player and as such should be #1 in usage.
     
  19. brick

    brick Member

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    Can't agree more. McHale had been hired before the team was assembled. Now look at the talents in our team, it makes a lot of sense even for the development of the players that we are better off with a coach more experienced in the perimeter offense.
     
  20. jtr

    jtr Member

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    If anyone on the roster cannot adjust to playing off of Harden's ball action, they will not be on the team for long. Lin included. Harden plus two top 30 players and as few as four serviceable players means a championship. The superstar has landed in Houston.
     

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