1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Official Fire McHale Thread

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by FTW Rockets FTW, Apr 19, 2012.

  1. muas2010

    muas2010 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2012
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    29
    Meaning the Rockets' record is better or worse then expected?
     
  2. Steal&Deal

    Steal&Deal Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    672
    Likes Received:
    15
    Again another idiotic conversation not worth my time to continue.
     
  3. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    68,569
    Likes Received:
    32,045
    a LOT better.
     
  4. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    68,569
    Likes Received:
    32,045
    If you don't know that then you probably shouldn't continue.
     
  5. muas2010

    muas2010 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2012
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    29
    Bingo! They would have probably won a few more games if McFail did....despite what a lot of people think this team has solid talents.
     
  6. roxxy

    roxxy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    5,120
    Likes Received:
    162
    Omer sits because he is tired. Lin doesn't sit because he is tired. He also doesn't sit because of a conspiracy against him. I don't know why McHale sits him, but it has little to do with exhaustion or hatred.
     
  7. jtr

    jtr Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    7,470
    Likes Received:
    275
    As near as I can tell you know nothing about basketball. People who understand the game will never point to a specific game in retrospect and say "that was a horrible decision by the coach". It is much to complex to analyze at that detail. The coaching staff completely understands in game situations, and second guessing the coaching staff is pointless. They have the full data set and you have nothing. In order to judge a coaching staff as a fan you need to move up several levels of granularity.
     
  8. Arthurprescott2

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2012
    Messages:
    2,647
    Likes Received:
    77
    JTR

    So your point (mostly aided by Mike Prada of SB Nation - just an NBA blog network - not particularly insightful or well-written) is what exactly? That quality of coaching is extremely hard to gauge and thus shouldn't be commented on?

    Much of your assessment is largely based on immeasurables:
    1. Are the players giving 100%? All the players? All the time? How can you tell? Just by watching? What about those instances when the players seem to lack focus and effort?

    2. Are the players learning and improving? How are you gauging that?

    3. Are the rookies being brought along at a reasonable pace? How would you gauge that when collectively they've played less than 1000 minutes?

    4. You say the offense flows against all but the best defensive teams - but this team has beaten the Bulls & Grizz (when both were Top 3 defensive teams) while falling to the likes of the Kings and Timberwolves.

    Your point that coaching is hard to gauge is reasonable, but your assessment is shaky at best. Thus you're not really providing a valid alternative to looking at the frequency of McHale's failure to adjust in-game.

    Granted, not many of the "insights" in this thread are laudable and sometimes quite moronic, but if you're entire point is "coaching is hard to gauge" but you offer up immeasurables as barometers, you're not offering anything better.


    (P.S. I don't buy your argument that coaches have very little to no influence in-game - we've seen time and time again - some coaches recognize match-up problems and adjust accordingly or find that certain plays can exploit certain teams/players).
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    68,569
    Likes Received:
    32,045
    This team could easily be a 30 win team...all year long. It's the youngest in the league, lowest payroll, and was thrown together at the last minute. I wouldn't have thought for a second they'd have a legit shot to make the playoffs, yet they just might. If the Rockets had 12 wins right now, I could see crying about McHale, but with the way the season has gone so far, it's kind of stupid.
     
  10. Lemonte

    Lemonte Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    124
    On a related note, I saw Rudy Tomjanovich today. He was renewing his driver license. I started to take a phone picture, but I didn't.

    All sorts of NBA celebrities, and celebrities in general, are in Houston right now.
     
  11. muas2010

    muas2010 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2012
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    29
    Na...you watched the games and there are certain games where the substitutions were just so bone-headed. Perhaps it is due to the players being young and McFail not trusting/knowing his players' strengths/weaknesses. However, if the Rockets only come up with 12 wins....that's not a coaching problem...I would say it's more of a talent problem (or at least chemistry problem).
     
  12. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    68,569
    Likes Received:
    32,045
    Say what you want, but this squad is playing about as well as it possibly could. They are young and inconsistent, that's not coaching, that's just how it is. How often does the youngest team in the league make the playoffs?
     
  13. xclearscreen

    xclearscreen Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    988
    Likes Received:
    26
    everything is nice and cherry for you. but try answering a few questions about McHale's coaching inconsistencies. you can't.
     
  14. muas2010

    muas2010 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2012
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    29
    I think a lot of people will let McHale fly this year....as I do agree with the squad being young and new to each other. I hope McHale knows what he's doing to maximize the potentials of everyone...even the ones on the bench. I think this 29 Ws shows that the team has talents more then anything else.....
     
  15. jtr

    jtr Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    7,470
    Likes Received:
    275
    Finally an intelligent comment in reply to one of my posts!

    Please at least glance over the article I keep posting the link for. A serious statistical analysis of the overall effect of coaching in the NBA. By real PhD's employed at real universities and posted in a respected National journal.

    1: We all have seen quit in NBA games. I think you can recognize it as well as I. It becomes extremely obvious in the Rockets fast paced game.

    2: In order to analyze team and individual improvement I rely on many metrics: advanced stats, individual player stats, team efficiency stats, etc. stats, looking at the offensive flow and the defensive schemes, and to be honest the discredited "eye test". The Rockets have come a long way since the beginning of the season.

    3: A NBA teams rookie progression for below top five picks is always slower than the fans desire. But in the Rockets case, with few data points, I believe that rookies will get playing time when they can contribute on the floor. Parsons last year may be the only example other than possibly Beverly. I can also point to D-Mo's awesome performance in the Clips game. Does he look like he should be on the floor. Sure. Did he look that way a month ago? Probably not.

    4: Without even looking back I will say that the Kings game loss was due to a very hot shooting team, and the Wolves loss was in the middle of a much to crowded schedule. Every team goes through slumps, and young teams probably suffer through them more often than experienced teams.

    And for the rest of your post, please read the cited article. Over a statistically significant sample set, coaching differences are basically indistinguishable.
     
  16. Arthurprescott2

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2012
    Messages:
    2,647
    Likes Received:
    77
    Yup. Read the article a while back. And definitely holds up - as you say over a statistically significant sample such as a season or even shorter stretches it's true that coaches make little impact. Morey's said that many times - I'll take that man at his word as well.

    That said, as fans, some of us at CF are more than a little aggrieved when obvious mistakes are made.

    Personally, I think McHale is a fine coach. Are there certain things I wish he did differently, sure, but how sure am I that it would have made a different - meh - 50/50? 60/40? And your point that coaches have more information at their hands is spot-on. Most of the criticisms leveled here are purely based on 20-20 hindsight w/o the benefit of insight beyond that.

    Just keep in mind that this is really just a venting thread - some members here are either 15 years old or plain new to basketball. You will have fewer aneurysms if you just plain ignore some of them.

    If anything, this thread should be utilized to discuss why we think a specific decision was made; not irrational narrative stuff like "McHale hates Lin" but something more along the lines of why do you think McHale has given Morris more burn than PPatt in certain games lately? Match-ups? More spacing? How much spacing does Morris provide that PPatt doesn't? Is the marginal increase in spacing worth accepting terrible decision-making by Morris at times?
     
  17. mike_lu

    mike_lu Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,159
    Likes Received:
    169
    That I can agree with. At least no definite need to replace him based on current body of work.
     
  18. mike_lu

    mike_lu Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,159
    Likes Received:
    169
    They were in the running last year until Rubio went down.

    You can get any conclusion you want depending on how you research. 10 economists forecast unemployment of 6%, another 10 forecast 8%, actual comes in at 7% and bang economists got it right again on average!
     
  19. rocketblood713

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2011
    Messages:
    3,428
    Likes Received:
    57
    I kinda with bobby on this topic I dont see no conspiracy or anything like that against Lin or the team I remember at one point in the GSW game Lin came back in the game and Rockets were up 10 and gave up a 3 point play I mean is that Mchales fault too lol I just dont see it... yea he can do alot of things better so can alot of coaches but aslong as hes in the hunt for the playoffs hes not getting fired next year maybe but if the players dont have problem with him I doubt it
     
  20. jtr

    jtr Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    7,470
    Likes Received:
    275
    And so was Adeled-man pushing him to hard? Knuckle pushups of a type?

    Believe me the national economy is orders of magnitude more complex than the NBA game. And the NBA is not simple by any metric.

    I am just attempting to present a simplified view of Morey's vaunted metrics. Read the article I keep citing.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now