If they have reason to suspect someone, they can get a warrant. If the Bill of Rights isn't tenable and we have to rifle through the personal effects of everyone to maintain security, then change the Constitution. But, you can't just arbitrarily declare the 4th amendment non-applicable in certain parts of the country. And, it's not really comparable to airport security. I don't like that either, but they at least have the rationale that you are using the service of air travel, so you have to agree to certain things in order to use the facilities. But people live within 100 miles of the border without doing anything in particular in which they must agree to security measures. They can't simply decline to live there like you can decide not to fly.
Calavier : 1. Showing arrogant or offhand disregard; dismissive: a cavalier attitude toward the suffering of others. 2. Carefree and nonchalant; jaunty. You are so quick to allow these people's rights to be violated to make yourself feel safe. In NY they had the rule that the cops could stop and frisk anyone at any time yet a majority of the time they only did it to minorities Of course .. if you not a minority you see it as just something to be endured for the safety of all and that those people should not mind it Easy to say when you really won't be impacted by it Rocket River
Exactly Good law should minimize the opportunity for abuse this d*mn thing opens the flood gates Rocket River
Isn't that why we have a Bill of Rights and a Constitution? It only takes one person abusing their power to mess up the whole system. The Bill of Rights is meant to be an absolute written contract between the government and the people to prevent the few that abuse power from getting to do so.
Sure, you can say that is what it is suppose to do, that does not change the fact that people are going to be aholes. That's just life. You're going to have crappy doctors, politicians, pastors, kindergarten teachers, etc.
Yeah...there were a-holes in 1789 also. That is why these rights were put into the Constitution, to protect against those very a-holes. There are some rights that were deemed to be so important that they were made absolute.
Yeah, I guess we'll agree to disagree on how my demeanor has been. I think I've showed a lot of concern especially in since many of my posts in this thread have been tl;dr and especially since I've stated that it would impact people I know and my life probably a lot more than it would yours since I have spent a lot of time in the borderlands and potential could resume that again (even though not doing so lately). Again, it's more of the fatalist or pessimist in me that doesn't see David winning againt Goliath, whether Goliath be big business or government or anyone in position of power grabbing more power. And the second point I think I've been making is that everyone on the Constitutional side (which I agree is being eroded by Obama and Bush since 9/11) just completely dismisses the balancing of rights angle...it's not like the reasons to do this are to become a tyrannical government. We still wouldn't be China in terms of government control over its citizenry, though it would be a step in that direction. RR, as a fellow Ag, read my tl;dr posts. I don't think this is a minority targeting thing, and that's really a hard thing to define down there. I mean, I guess it could be called that, but Latino is the majority in the borderlands dude, so I don't understand that angle. Feds and cops will be looking to stop crime and terrorism. What I want to know is the indicators or intel that leads to searching electronics as opposed to doing it know. Like what has been prevented by probable cause? I want to see real world examples, real cases, real infringements b/c that's how my mind works best. Who is getting the shaft and is it actually helping more than before. I want to see the oversight report.
Has little to do with Minorities in specific but the biggest issue is that these things START with those that cannot or will not defend themselves and then it speads to everyone I don't think you are racist or a bad person I just think you are willing to sacrifice rights for expedience Which is short cutting and is not a good idea the long term consequence could be worse than what you trying to prevent Rocket River
I just don't know how bad it actually is without seeing the real-world examples. I mean, other than the slippery slope theory, the rest of the warrant is about principles. I don't think any rights are absolute b/c some always infringe on others in situations. Individual liberty also involves attempting to protect citizens from crime and terrorism b/c you can't be free w/o safety. The extreme example (which again is extreme, but only used to prove a point about absolutes) is the lack of freedom to yell fire in a crowded theater without there being a fire. You will get arrested for infringing on others' rights to safety and peace. Anyhow, that was just one main point. It's not about absolutism to me, but a balancing or weighing of values. I'm not a Constitution thumper like many here to the level of hardcore Christians being Bible thumpers. For me, it's a piece of paper with a lot of great ideas, and factually, wasn't it intended only to be temporary (trying to remember history)? And so transitioning from a theoretical discussion as to why this electronic search law would be wrong, towards real-world examples would help me understand best. I think I need to see this play out before I would have a better idea of the costs and benefits. There are a lot of countries in between the US and China rainbow when it comes to individual liberty protections. Not all of them suck or are butt awful with their laws protecting freedom. Yes, we are the most free in many many ways, but other states aren't always worse. There's actually much more freedom to mass protest and assemble in France, but at the same time cops have the right to ask for ID anytime b/c it's illegal not to have your ID on you (iirc). Lastly, the fatalist in me I guess makes me more accepting. I just don't see what I could do if I went down there (which I did/could potentially do more often than probably everyone in this thread) if border patrol searches my electronics. What could I do? I would call up my friends and connections and complain, but I don't think I would be fighting them on the scene...that would probably lead to more trouble. Like, I think I would pick a different liberty infringement battle to fight.
