Who was better in their 4th year? Steve Francis or James Harden?

Sounds impressive but I am of the belief that after 3 superstars/borderline superstars, any addition of similar talent is actually detrimental to the team. After three, you need complementary role players.

Anyway.. back to the thread. Harden is a much more efficient scorer than Francis, but again, in order for Harden to get to the next echelon of superstar, he needs to be more multi dimensional than he is now. All out defensive effort and great passer. I think Durant just got there last year, Lebron on the other hand was always there.

 

I saw a sportwriter on espn in a chat once say he thought of Francis as a more athletic version of derek rose, but rose is miles ahead in the head department.

The jaw dropping number to me is Francis' rebounds. Over 6 per game is pretty crazy for a point guard. Rondo leads the league now with 5.6. As with Tracy, it's hard not think of what could have been...

 

Francis was ahead of his time if he played in today's NBA he would be glorified much like Westbrook very similar players if u ask me and I've seen fam near every Steve game he ever played in a rockets uni. He'd have games were u scratched ur head and then he would have games were u thought he was the best pg in the history of the game.

 

WB plays defense.

 

This was the comment I was looking for, my overriding memories of Stevie French Fries was of him and Cat Mobley trying in vein to finish a fast-break. And this would happen at least once or twice a game and at the worst times to a maddening extent!

 

The thing about Harden that often gets overlooked in player comparisons is, how many points he makes per field goal attempt. I don't know if that is tracked somewhere, but since he gets to the line so often, his fg% may not look that great but he still gets lots of points with not so many shots.

Francis was great - people tend to bash him these days, but he did a lot of things really good and could've been a second star on a championship team if he'd stayed healthy.

But the main thing Harden has on him is bbiq and killer instinct.

 

Francis flashed moments of greatness, but just couldn't put it all together ultimately. I think his long standing substance abuse did him in. He had amazing athleticism, but he often played out of control and commonly hogged the ball. He pounded the cover off the ball. At times it seemed he was playing for his own stat sheet. It also seemed like he was after "style" points. His overhand reverse behind the back under the leg lay up for a turnover used to drive announcers crazy. He was a flash in the pan.

Harden is in the pan and he is cooking.

 

Interesting stats...

How many games did the Rockets win during Steve's forth year...???

And how was the talent surrounding Steve that year compared to what Harden has around him this year...???

If we are going to compare stats than maybe those two things should be considered as well...

 

I think Steve had a much better supporting cast around him than what Harden does.. So to me that makes Harden's numbers look much better..

 

Francis the better athlete,
Harden the better player.

 

Don't make me use my old moniker!

 

And which has the healthier liver?

 

Agreed. Harden is a fine athlete who doesn't rely on his athleticism to be effective. Or rather, he uses his athleticism more efficiently. Every once in a while, he'll give a little burst that throws you off, but Harden plays like an old school wily vet.

Harden seems mentally tougher. I wonder how, out if the public eye, Harden is much easier for the org to deal with.

Francis would out speed and out jump you. He as a fine scorer who struggled with the pg role. I remember cats arguing back in the day about how, once his athleticism declined, Francis would no longer be effective. Folks used to contrast him to Andre Miller.

 

Look at it this way, Harden is a top 10 player, was francis ever a top 10 player?

 

Harden in every way except dunk/alley oop highlights

 

I think that speaks more about the level of talent now and days than it does about Steve

 

Harden creates better and is a better all around player I think. The stats may be a bit misleading because the season isn't over but I definitely think Harden is a better 3pt shooter and his ability to draw that many fouls is insane. Harden is also younger and that helps out his case of being a better player at that point in their careers.

That being sad Francis was a great player to watch but I remember it being really hard to watch him play 1 vs 5. I still remember when the Rockets went against the HOF team that was the Lakers (Malone, Shaq, Kobe, Payton). Boki and his confrontation with Malone was priceless.

 

Francis arrived to the NBA as almost a finished product. He was exciting to watch. But he did not improve much over his career. He did things his way. More of a shooting guard than a pointguard.

But he led the Rockets to several exciting seasons. I think several that were near misses for a playoff roster even thuough they had stellar records.

Still one of the best Rocket players to don the jersey for Red Nation.

 

Harden on the other hand needed a big learning curve. But he is picking it up quite well. I think based on his ability he will continue to improve.

I think when it is all said Harden will be viewed among the best shooting guards in his generation.

Also it seems that Hardens defense is way above Steve Francis defense.

 

Francis was an overrated all star. The only reason he made the all star team was he was very popular. Harden made it by vote of the coaches and gm's.

In the end Harden > Francis