There was a ~4 year gap between the Xbox and Xbox 360 (~6 year gap if you want to go from PS2->PS3). We're looking at around a 7-8 year gap for the next generation. And that seems way too early? What are you guys expecting? A 10+ year gap (with a few more years beyond that where major 360/PS3 games still are released)? And as I mentioned earlier, there are plenty of indicators that the market might be ready for a new generation. 11-12 straight months of declining game sales in the US (and that's factoring in the new handhelds and Wii U IIRC). If people seem happy and still very excited about current-gen systems, they don't seem to be showing it very well (except for something like CoD, but then again, CoD visuals are so poor that next-gen could easily make gamers say "wow"). I don't doubt that MS/Sony will have a tougher time selling new consoles (due to a variety of reasons), but I really don't think it is too early for a new generation. If anything, it is too late.
Agreed but its not about the gap in years but in technology. It shouldn't be that "its about time" but about "were ready for a substantial enough upgrade".
Well...we are ready for a substantial enough upgrade IMO. The gap in years is usually a good indicator of the gap in technology. ~250 GFLOPs GPU -> 1.2-1.8TFLOPS GPU (plus better features and better efficiency...PS3's GPU didn't even use unified shaders) 512MB RAM -> 4GB/8GB RAM (also all unified, PS3 could be limited to 256MB of RAM for graphics, though I think good devs managed to leverage some of the XDR memory for graphics related tasks as well) <32MB RAM reserved for OS -> 512MB/3GB reserved for OS (according to rumors) Not a great upgrade on the CPU side, though arguably easier to develop for and possibly not that important for final results (especially with some tasks moving to other components). I'd like it better if the specs were a little better, but they'd still be in the same ballpark more or less. Likely just the difference between Agni's Philosophy @ 720p/30fps vs (possibly at most) 1080p/60fps (that might even be stretching some). What makes you think this isn't enough of a technical upgrade? What kind of specs would be worthy of that claim?
Yeah, I understand your comment about market indicators, RC, and I don't doubt them but I personally don't give a crap about all that. For myself I'm still not feeling even the slightest itch for a next gen console with the quality of games being what they are on the current gen. That's just me.
I think it is a little unfair to say that at this point. Are you sure you weren't thinking the same about 8-9 years ago (around the release of Halo 2, MGS3, God of War, GT4, Shadow of the Colossus, GTA:SA, etc., <12 months before 360's release)? Neither console has been officially revealed, so we've yet to see what makes them so great. All we have are some numbers (and incomplete ones at that). Looking only at numbers, 360/PS3 probably didn't look so great either (especially with the good stuff that came out in the 2004-2006 time period). Probably better to wait for some OS demos, game demos/announcements, etc., before announcing your complete apathy for next-gen. And again, it is 9-10 months from now before release (best, albeit probable, case), and you can tack on another 6-9 months (or more) for the transitional period (as things get rolled out globally and the industry starts to shift its focus). Don't think the itch will show up during that time period? Though to be fair, I suppose there could be an itch due to fewer AAA games being released on 360/PS3 as developers move on to the newer consoles (and/or PC development).
I'm hoping they can use these systems to make better games. Fps have gone to dog poo, half the game is on a pre programmed linear invisible checkpoint system where nit only is strategy non existsnt but you won't get an outcome unless you follow the line to point x which triggers y reaction in the game. Air needs a boost but not cheating but dawg they're all seeming to look alike at this point
Got a 360s about 14 months ago so I have no desire to get a new one. But if someone makes another Star Wars: Battlefront or a Fable that more closely resembles Fable 2 than Fable 3 that will change fast. Another Amalur would also do the trick. I was really hoping this coming generation of systems would work as cable boxes as well. I thought I remembered reading that the "720" would be the only entertainment box needed in your living room. I guess we're just not there yet.
Actually, a lot of these specs seem to indicate they could/would work as cable boxes (or Durango might anyway). Has HDMI-In (in addition to HDMI-out) for example. Also all that RAM should be used for something. Both kind of pointless if you're going to focus entirely on just games. Don't want to speculate on what all they might do, but I think some sort of cable box-esque functionality would be likely. Again, would like to wait and see what they show when they're ready to reveal everything. Lots of cool stuff you can do with these specs beyond just gaming.
I'm not sure why it is unfair of me to state my opinion at this time. I stated earlier that unless they go some other direction with these consoles then I am not interested. To me, were the new Xbox to do what was suggested earlier and ship with the Kinect 2.0 and focus much more on that style of gaming, THAT would be a general change in direction. I could get some excitement brewed up for that. But right now that is all speculation. And yes, I was feeling the itch back before the current gen systems were released. That might have been in part because of the prospect of a new medium war (Blu Ray vs HDDVD), which I found fascinating having been too young to really experience the Betamax vs VHS competition of yesteryear. I'm not at all excited about the new systems at this point. Could they change that with some new announcements of some really cool ideas or directions? Sure. I never stated otherwise. In fact I specifically stated exactly that. But if the primary focus of this next gen is to get to a stable 60 fps (I realize that was just speculation posted by someone in this thread, just using it as an example) by just upgrading the hardware, then no, I don't expect I'll get too excited about them. But I recognize we have a long way to go.
Don't really see the point of consoles anymore. The primary reason used to be that they were cheap avenues for computer entertainment but you can build a decent, multi-purpose gaming PC now for very cheap. The stagnation of the Japanese gaming industry also wiped out the worthwhile console exclusives.
You can state your opinion, but just seems premature to even bother at this point. Like stating your opinion on the state of the Rockets during the summer, when they had 9-10 PFs and little else (I'm sure some were saying "Unless Morey makes a move, ___"). It is obvious that you're not getting the whole story, so why bother trying to come up with some conclusion? Especially if you're trying to say it is too early for a new generation (leaving an opening of "unless they try something new," but not actually waiting until they actually can show something new). They could wait another 3-4 years, but since we still wouldn't know what they're planning, it could still be "too early" (that is, until they actually reveal their plans). I'm not sure what qualifies as a new direction for you. But even with what little info we have, there are already strong indicators that MS/Sony are trying something new. You don't put HDMI-In into a console unless you have some interesting cablebox-esque ideas. You don't put 8GB of DDR3 RAM into a gaming console unless you plan on doing more than just gaming. You don't spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a cloud gaming service and then shut them down, never to use them again (or use them only in your non-gaming devices). Not even touching Kinect/Move/controller stuff. Plus all the cool anti used game stuff the consoles will implement. Now some/all of that stuff might not be that interesting to you (unless well-implemented, I can see myself not caring much), though they are new directions and something I'd probably put on par with HD DVD/Blu-ray.
I would be excited if they added DVR functionality. Tivo's are too expensive and htpc builds aren't easy enough and are too expensive.
What's the business case for console gaming nowadays anyway? Still the same-ol' "battle for the living room" crap? PC gaming has gone freemium and doesn't look to be going back. Development cost for games is now astronomical, creativity is being driven out of the industry, and exclusive titles are now exceedingly rare. I just don't see the point of owning a console to play the maybe 2% of games that don't end up on the PC. Also, Atari to Nintendo was a big jump in quality. 8-bit to 16-bit was an appreciable enhancement. PS was a sea change, and PS2 was again an appreciable jump. But I honestly couldn't really tell much difference going from PS2 to PS3. And now PS4/Xbox 720 will just be more of the same? At least Nintendo tried (and failed) to take the market in a different direction. Back to League of Legends. Wake me up when consoles do something different from the same-ol' same-ol'.
So unless I have all the information, I shouldn't discuss the console or express my opinion? Why does this thread exist, then? Did you wade into the GARM and criticize every person that expressed an opinion of the Rockets back when they had 9-10 PFs because they shouldn't even bother? Nevermind. You seem intent on arguing that my opinion is somehow wrong. I'll just bow out of the thread as it was clearly not created for people like me.
You can always express your opinion, and it would be very good to have opinions specifically on what information we do have (listed several things we know earlier, which can be discussed...including "new things" like possible DVR functionality). To say something like there is nothing interesting about the new consoles (not a quote from you, just a general opinion I see) without having actually seen anything of substance from them (except specs) seems silly to me though. Especially if there aren't really any complaints about the specs (I can see some people possibly arguing that the specs aren't good enough, but haven't really seen much of that...I'm assuming a console with an i7, 8970, and 8GB GDDR5 would likely still not be that interesting to some people). To discuss/express opinions on information we do know about, or speculate on information/things that might happen (e.g., tech specs, dvr functionality, Gaikai streaming, Kinect 2.0, that weird PS4 controller stuff, etc.). I don't post in the GARM, but I did think it was silly for people to be overreacting to minor roster moves in the beginning/middle of the summer when it was clear that the Rockets would be doing something by the time the season started. It is fine to criticize/praise each individual move, but to make any grand conclusions about the Rockets (e.g., lottery bound, playoff contenders, etc.) at that point was premature IMO. Not wrong, just premature. I actually agree with the general sentiment that you and others have shared here. Sony and MS MUST do more than make games look just a little prettier (making things 1080p and 60 FPS isn't enough). If they do just that, I agree that there won't be that great of an incentive to "jump in" later this year. Where I differ is that I'm pretty sure Sony and MS know all of that, and assuming there are some competent people at these companies, they're probably adjusting their business plans to maximize interest. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. They may drop the ball, and I'll criticize the hell out of them (just as I'd criticize Morey if we still had 9 PFs, no Harden, no Asik, etc.). But I'll wait until the consoles are actually revealed and "official" before concluding that much about them.
It looks like they'll both be pretty much on par as far as graphical power. I'm curious about the other bells and whistles. Sony maybe going with a touchpad type controller, and Microsoft integrating more Kinext functionality into the system. I do think Sony has a huge advantage with first party titles. Third party titles should be roughly equal with similarly powered systems, but I trust Microsoft more to throw money at exclusives (like early access to DLC or entirely exclusive content). If there's innovation with the controllers as has been rumored, then one of these could break out if it's viewed as the better way to play. Sony is also going to struggle to make up the subscriber base that Xbox currently has. Most users that play MW or COD are on Xbox, and I'm assuming that they'll just upgrade their system and keep their friend lists the same. That's one area that Sony really needs to make up ground, but I'm not sure how they do that. I'm assuming they'll have a more user friendly online experience next generation, and I feel they're doing a great job with Plus (free quality games, automagic online backups). The one area that is the ultimate wild card for me is DVR and media hub functionality. I cut the cord for over two years and only have it now to watch some Rocket games this season (and because I got a hella cheap deal), but I'm dropping it again as soon as the season ends. It's such a hodge podge mess to watch some shows on Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, streamed over the network. I'd love to see some kind of Roku like service where I can plug into multiple online providers and easily pull up where I can find the latest episode of Top Chef or Breaking Bad. If one of these boxes can truly innovate and find a streamlined way to help people watch content and cut the cord without having to abandon all their shows and sports, I can see them winning over hard core and even casual viewers. My parents never bought a Wii or any other console (other than the Atari 2600 they bought us back in elementary school), but I could see them buying a system that let them watch the few TV shows and college football games they watch without the full costs of cable and without the headache of configuring a Roku. I have no idea who's going to release first, but I expect Sony. I think both Sony and Microsoft are going to play things close to the vest. They saw how Nintendo's Wii U press conference fell flat. That was partly due to all the details being leaked in the months before E3, and also because Reggie sucks at press conferences and Nintendo conferences always have such a uncomfortably weird dorky vibe to them. I think this is why we'll see their announcements soon, because some of the details are already starting to leak and they have to realize they can't stop it all from getting out for too much longer.
There are a few factors why PC gaming will not exceed console gaming for a long time to come. The primary reason is console gaming is much more lucrative. Studios do not have to worry about their games getting pirated as much. On PC, it is very very simple to download and install pretty much any game. When it comes to console, the game is designed for that piece of hardware. The developers do not have to worry about trying to make sure the game will work on 10 year old technology or worry about operating systems, viruses, bugs and a whole myriad of problems PC users have to face. A decent gaming PC will cost at least 3x the price of a console.
