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Interesting Read -[REALGM] What Harden Needs

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by RocketsMAN!, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. MambaJoe

    MambaJoe Member

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    fixed...
     
  2. LosPollosHermanos

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    You posted this in another thread too. Another one of your posts show me why your logic is flawed.
    Not everyone is equal in the game of basketball, it is not a democratic system. Teams focus on their strengths (players) and have others to complement them. You could even think of it as a feudal system with the serfs, merchants, and aristocrats. Some players are better than others and that isn't even debatable.

    As far as Harden is concerned your example is a clear indication as to why stats without the context they are presented in are completely useless. Harden is focal point of the other team's defense every single night and is forced to create his shot and shots for others. The way in which he scores his points is why players like that are referred to stars/superstars.
    Lin is fed open shots all night long, many coming from Harden so the least he could do is shoot a decent clip. Rather than admit the obvious, Lin's play is far below what is should be, Harden has been the focal point of criticism even though many of us acknowledge this team lacks a lot of firepower. Yes he hasn't been shooting well, but he is impacting the game in so many other ways and will pick it up as the law of averages dictates.
     
  3. LosPollosHermanos

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    I actually agree with you on this, and that I am not too high on Harden even after he has proved himself this season. This bias is mostly due to his behaviour but I forget it as long as he performs on the court.
     
  4. MambaJoe

    MambaJoe Member

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    Harden is really athletic though. He's not the explosive type like Westbrook or Lebron James but his running vertical measures higher than Blake Griffin.
     
  5. MambaJoe

    MambaJoe Member

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    As much as I hate Howard as a person, Asik has been so frustrating lately that having a guy that can actually catch lobs, passes, and actually dunk instead of layups is so refreshing...
     
  6. kcal

    kcal Member

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    The rockets have crossed the line from relying on a strength to burning it out. Harden is playing too many minutes and is expected to do too much within the offense. We see the evidence in the form of a sharp decline in harden's scoring (obviously as a result of his precipitous drop in fg%).

    And harden has clearly not been asked to play the role of defensive stopper. As a matter of fact, even the most casual observer would note that a significant percentage of harden's baskets come from cherry picking, and cheating on break aways while his teammates are still playing defense.

    Responses to specific points are underlined.

     
  7. LosPollosHermanos

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    Btw kcal, I'm sorry if my posts came off as abrasive, you seem like a really respectful and nice guy I am just trying to be objective.

    I will comment on one of your replies as that pretty much sums it up.

    So in my response to Lin shooting at a bad clip:
    No matter where Lin goes, he is going to have to become a good spot up shooter. You have to realize that he is at fault in that and that every NBA team will require him to be one.
     
  8. glacier921

    glacier921 Rookie

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    Except if Lin is not 50% within 5 shots, they'll bench him. When Harden is 3/21, he closes out the 4th quarter. LOL.
     
  9. LosPollosHermanos

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    Also, this team lacks firepower kcal, that is blatantly obvious, its also why most predictions never had us in the playoffs.
     
  10. Steal&Deal

    Steal&Deal Member

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  11. rolyat93

    rolyat93 Member

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    Harden = Superstar minutes

    Lin = Role player minutes
     
  12. aesthetics80

    aesthetics80 Member

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    Lin is obviously better at initiating the offense and is a better passer. He gets more guys involved and directs guys to spots, etc.

    When Harden is running the offense I don't see him putting players into spots or directing plays at all, he just does what he does and everyone just watches.

    Yet Harden is always running the point 80% of the time.

    I know it's just wishful thinking at this point, but I would like to see Lin be the Westbrook and Harden be the Durant on this team. Everyone knows Durant is the man in OKC but Westbrook still brings up the ball and usually initiates the offense the majority of the time. You know, things a PG does.

    I don't see why both Lin and Harden can't average 20 shots apiece like Westbrook + Durant.
     
  13. glacier921

    glacier921 Rookie

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    And being labelled as a superstar means you are immune to numbers? Hmmm...
     
  14. wukong

    wukong Member

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    Lin is 61.9% at the Rim 2.6M/4.1A at the rim per game. he has problems but that is NOT one of them.
     
  15. kcal

    kcal Member

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    I completely disagree. Rondo is not a spot up shooter. CP3 is not a spot up shooter. It is completely unnecessary for a PG to become a top level spot up 3 pt shooter. That's not what PG's do. They don't wait for another player to bring the ball up and look for them as a catch and shoot 3 pt shooter.

    PG's bring the ball up, direct the offense, and distribute the basketball to the player who has the best chance of scoring in any given set.

    Name one other PG in the league whose designated role is to do nothing except to stand at the 3 pt line and wait for a kickout from the SG or another player. It just doesn't happen.

    If I can't convey this most elementary of points, then any further conversation is impossible, no offense.


     
  16. LosPollosHermanos

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    Rondo has become a MUCH better spot up shooter, and he is an all star pg with passing and court vision Lin doesn't have too. CP3 is a great shooter. If he is open and pulls up, or mid range he shoots a good clip. Also even if that weren't the case, you are talking about the best PG in the league and a future HOF that used to put up 30pts and 20 assts back with N.O. He can score if he wants, he chooses not.
     
  17. kcal

    kcal Member

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    Yeah, I'm already at the point where I am completely ready to throw my hands up in resignation.

    I can see why forum posters develop a hatred for specific players. They hate the stubbornness and resistance to facts and basic definitions of certain posters who idolize a specific player that they will wind up taunting that poster's favorite player just to get a rise out of the obstinate poster, whom they dislike.

    It becomes an endless chain of trolling.
     
  18. ChandlerBANG

    ChandlerBANG Member

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    1 person likes this.
  19. LosPollosHermanos

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    Its also because Lin is inept at controlling the flow of the offense at this point in his game that he has to be made use of by shooting open high % shots. I should rephrase that, he isn't inept, but he is incredibly erratic to the point you can't hinge a game on him and expect him to deliver a given night.
     
  20. kcal

    kcal Member

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    You conveniently ignored the fact that the PG's you mentioned are ball dominant and get to direct the offense and determine their own shot selection.

    Whereas Lin is asked to stand in a corner and wait for an occasional kickout.

    Rondo has court vision and passing and Lin doesn't? All right, later. That's just flat out haterade.
     

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