But gagging someone would prevent any speech at all. Nobody is suggesting taking away all guns which would be the equivalent of the gag. They are suggesting regulation that would help cut down on some of the massacre style mass shootings and not being allowed to yell fire in a quiet theater is a particular type of speech. It seems like a valid comparison.
That's BS and you know it. Plenty of people are calling for out-right bans. And one ban generally leads to future bans incrementally taking the rights away. They took away automatic rifles in the 1980s, now they want semi-automatic. When does it stop? It won't, unless we fight for the right. Regulations on rifles won't stop massacre style shootings, and to think so is flat-out naive. Most mass shootings are done with pistols. Either way, why focus on massacre style shootings when they are a tenth of a single percentile of the total body count? It's like trying to stop global warming by saying box fans use too much energy, there are much bigger fish to fry.
no, I haven't seen a serious movement for a complete ban on guns. I disagree. The Assault weapons ban didn't lead to future bans. With the additional ban on high capacity magazines it will save lives. The recent school shooting, and the Gabby Giffords shooting are both instances where lives would have been saved without high capacity magazines and assault rifles. Because something won't stop all shootings doesn't make it bad. It's okay to cut down on certain types of shootings especially with something like this that doesn't infringe on the second amendment.
The assault weapons ban didn't lead to a future ban because it expired under a pro-gun president. I've heard plenty of pundits and vocal celebrities and movements calling for complete bans. How do you know that non-high capacity magazines would have saved lives? How do you know that they wouldn't have "illegally" purchased high capacity rounds? You don't know, you are speculating... and sorry, but I don't speculate with my rights. Also, for the CT shooter he had terrified targets who would not have fought back, extended magazine or not he could have done just as much damage with the time he had... which I believe was 14 minutes.
Whether he wants to admit it or not, Svpernut is a great example of the problem in getting reasonable changes to the current situation of gun proliferation and mass killings. He does not want to consider gun control of any kind, because, in his mind it equals "taking away our guns" and nothing less than an outright ban. This makes any type of reasoned debate a non-starter for him and he will continue throwing out gun stats, platitudes, rationalizations, and excuses till he is blue in the face. Except for the fringe, there has been no one on the major stage calling for an outright ban of guns.
We don't agree with what is reasonable. Limiting to 10 rounds won't reduce the ability to prevent a kindergarten massacre. Mass shooting is actually less of a threat when compared to deaths by lightning over the last 10 years. Reasonable gun control is in place and pro 2nd admendment rights activists understand the best way to prevent the desired slippery slope effect by opponents is to stop any further infringement.
Though, as per the other thread, not over the last 3 years combined. :grin: Deaths by lightning are plummeting. Mass shooting casualties just crossed 100 in a year for the first time. (Sorry, ROXRAN.) Still, the point that mass shootings are not a major public health threat is (currently) correct. They're just terrifying and tragic in the extreme.
No prob. B-bob, everything you said is correct. ...and capacity is an issue, 100 round drum mags are ridiculous even for defense but if there was a real effort to compromise then there are ways like I said I could back such as limiting capacity to 20 rounds, which would be enough to stop multiple home invaders even considering missed shots or multiple hits to stop one one of them (which can and has happened)....I would be open to an exchange program on that. But like I said, there is no need to diminish semi. automatic rifles or pistols thru banning. That is where I and others get defensive, and what you have now is a bunch of people (some likely undisciplined) who have stockpiled on weapons and ammo by the hundreds of thousands that ordinarily wouldn't over the past month all due to fear. This fear, misplaced or not unfortunately cuts both ways. The rhetoric could have been better to prevent the buying frenzy.
Here is a comprehensive list of the president's proposals. Other than the aforementioned 10 round limit, which other proposals are unreasonable? Proposed Congressional Actions • Requiring criminal background checks for all gun sales, including those by private sellers that currently are exempt. • Reinstating & strengthening the ban on assault weapons that was in place from 1994 to 2004. • Limiting ammunition magazines to 10 rounds. • Banning the possession of armor-piercing bullets by anyone other than members of the military & law enforcement. • Increasing criminal penalties for "straw purchasers," people who pass the required background check to buy a gun on behalf of someone else. • Acting on a $4 billion administration proposal to help keep 15,000 police officers on the street. • Confirming President Obama's nominee for director of the ATF. • Eliminating a restriction that requires the ATF to allow the importation of weapons that are more than 50 years old. • Financing programs to train more police officers, first responders, & school officials on how to respond to active armed attacks. • Provide additional $20 million to help expand the system that tracks violent deaths across the nation from 18 states to 50 states. • Providing $30 million in grants to states to help schools develop emergency response plans. • Providing financing to expand mental health programs for young people. Executive actions • Issuing a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system. • Addressing unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability & Accountability Act that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system. • Improving incentives for states to share information with the background check system. • Directing the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks. • Proposing a rule making to give law enforcement authorities the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun. • Publishing a letter from the ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers. • Starting a national safe & responsible gun ownership campaign. • Reviewing safety standards for gun locks & gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission). • Issuing a presidential memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations. • Releasing a report analyzing information on lost & stolen guns & making it widely available to law enforcement authorities. • Nominating an ATF director. • Providing law enforcement authorities, first responders, & school officials with proper training for armed attacks situations. • Maximizing enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence & prosecute gun crime. • Issuing a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control & Prevention to research gun violence. • Directing the attorney general to issue a report on the availability & most effective use of new gun safety technologies & challenging the private sector to develop innovative technologies. • Clarify that the ACA does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes. • Releasing a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities. • Providing incentives for schools to hire school resource officers. • Developing model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship & institutions of higher education. • Releasing a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover. • Finalizing regulations clarifying essential health benefits & parity requirements within insurance exchanges. • Committing to finalizing mental health parity regulations. • Starting a national dialogue on mental health led by the secretary of health & human services, & the secretary of education.
me too but in case a nutjob with a rifle shows up..I would like not to be a sheeple and have something to give him in return.
Hi ROXRAN, and thanks again. We (and maybe only we) are pretty much at a similar place as to what could reasonably work. Sounds like even more people agree about the sadness that is a lot of undisciplined yahoos getting guns beyond their understanding and competence. Question for you though: what do you think of buy-back programs? I kind of like them, but would be interested in your take.
Feinstein calls for banning more than 150 types of firearms, including pistols and shotguns. Told ya.
