Thank you for posting that -- it's a great read and a very sad, true statement about the snow blinding experiened by some fringe Americans. I guess the insult they add to massive injury is what gets me cranked up about it. At what point are the conspiracy nuts (especially ones who harass and even threaten a guy like this) just another version of the Westboro Baptist Church? I fail to see much of a difference. If someone says "hey, I'm just asking the question" but the question is to doubt a tragedy that someone survived, it is indeed purely insulting, regardless of intent. If your grandparents died in a house fire, for instance, and some guy comes up and says the whole fire might be faked, and that "hey, I'm just asking the question," you would rightly have an emotional reaction to that. What an odd, odd hobby. There's a universe full of legitimate and unsolved questions that an active mind can explore, but this obsession with being in The Matrix or something really leaves me baffled. Again, I can only understand it as a desperate way for someone to feel smarter than everyone else or super-special. Sad in any event, because I don't think they mean any insult (unlike those Westboro clowns.)
Total agreement. There is plenty of "real" injustice and malfeasance to research and bring to the light of day. Why is it so hard to accept the simple "reality" that a crazed nutjob in Newtown took it upon himself to slaughter innocent kids and teachers?
What's sad is that we still can't fully answer how a crazed nutjob in Newtown got hold of guns and a lot of ammunition to go and slaughter innocent kids and teachers or how do we prevent those things in the future. Those are far more important questions than asking about whether this was some vast government conspiracy.
Yup, misguided priorities. You can't make sense of madness, no point in trying. Try to figure out why the madness occurred, were there indicators before hand that could have helped prevent it? How do you prevent it from happening in the future?
Well, (more to rashmon), to the credit of the conspiracy minded, they are most attracted to what at first blush seems unlikely: * knocking the twin towers down with commercial jet liners. * putting a man on the moon and bringing him back with 1960's technology. * a madman kills a bunch of elementary school kids. Who could do that? * a black man with a foreign sounding name gets elected president. WTF? * New York gets the Patrick Ewing draft pick. I mean... I don't hear any of them challenging the fact that Paula Dean is actually a diabetic. Right? To their credit, I don't hear a black helicopter theory for secret poison making Paula Dean diabetic. So maybe there's a respect for Occam's Razor in their somewhere. rocketsjudoka, I think we do have a lot of those answers, all very sad. We don't yet know what finally set him off, but we know where all the guns came from and why he had easy access to them. We know he was, to most people he encountered, extremely isolated and mentally/emotionally challenged by normal everyday life.
As the real Rush would say: "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." Do you think we are idiots and cannot see through your weak attempts at pretend objectivity?
Yes lets live by what Rush says. And yes I think you're all idiots and cannot see through my weak attempts. I choose not to decide cause not all facts are release and there's still questions out there (stuff like nickb posted). Until that all gets cleared up, than I'll choose a side. Anyways, Mods please lock this thread.
I just noticed that in this thread both people who have argued for more regulation and those for no more regulation of guns have blasted the OP. That is saying quite a bit.
People that have argued for abortion and against abortion have blasted the OP. People who identify as Republicans and people who identify as Democrats have blasted the OP. People who blame Comcast and people who blame the Rockets and people who blame the Astros and people who blame CSH have blasted the OP. People that favor easing drug laws and people who favor current drug laws have blasted the OP.
That is just heartbreaking. But thank god he had the right to have a weapon capable of shooting him 11 times in such a short amount of time. At least Noah died for a good cause!
Really depressing. Wish that article was more widespread in the media. Something people need to hear even if it's unpleasant. But yeah, to rocketsjudoka's point, it's hard to get full agreement here in the D&D but we nearly did. This usually only happens with the most idiotic of posts.
OK, Noah had his mouth shot off so that the shooter's mom could have the right to own a gun capable of shooting a six-year-old 11 times in mere seconds and leave it to where her mentally ill son could steal it. That better?
Best summary I've found that rebuted his theories. http://www.reddit.com/r/skeptic/com...hook_conspiracy_video_has_been_making/c7xjgzr **** Alex Jones. I honestly would kick his ****ing ass if I ever see him face to face.
Here's the article for those that are lazy: Since no one has really taken the time to debunk this here you go: First off I want to note - the main contributor of information in this video and around this conspiracy is Alex Jones. He is, in my opinion, a paranoid nutjob, as was pretty evident by his CNN interview - seriously skip to 3 minutes in and tell me this guy is a credible person. (My intent here is not ad hominem, just wanted to give some context as to the presenters of these "facts" and their origins) Now that that's out of the way let's look at the content of the video... Theory 1: The first thing the video tries to allege is that there is a second shooter. They love to grab early media footage and then use that as "evidence" of their claims, as if the media's first reporting is somehow golden. Odd that conspiracy theorists distrust the media, then turn around and use its raw reporting claims as evidence. Anyway, you can easily google and figure out who the guy in the woods was. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y6C2YmOLWnM He is the father of a student there and the athletic director at the highschool. He was on his way to the school to help make gingerbread houses with 1st graders when he heard the shots. He was unarmed, arrested, detained, questioned, and let go. The story of the guy in the woods was a dead end, so the media dropped it. That is the problem with the 24 hour news cycle, they will report any lead they get before sorting out facts. However, this is hardly evidence of a conspiracy. The video even makes the ridiculous claim that since the guy was sitting in the FRONT of the police car, that he must have some "crazy" credentials. Yeah, what is more likely...that this guy was a concerned father or that he was a man with some "crazy" credentials on a black ops mission to shoot up a school but he just didn't have the skills to properly vacate, and so he ended up getting himself captured by lowly local law enforcement, AND broadcast on national tv, potentially exposing his super secret black op? C'mon. Theory 2: The gun discrepancy. This can be chalked up to contradictory reporting, which is going to happen when the media competes with itself to be the first one to break any new details. There have already been articles discussing these discrepancies. What is known for sure is he carried at least 2 handguns into the school and had a shotgun in his car. The discrepancies come in when talking about the other weapons, some sources claim it was a Bushmaster AR-15, others claim it was 2 additional pistols and the AR was left in the trunk with the shotgun. I will dive into this theory deeper as I continue to find new information. Theory 3: The nurse is fake and does not exist. This is completely false, and has been debunked with evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r61PvN4U3x0 Theory 4: The laughing/crying father. This means absolutely nothing. No one can judge how a father copes with the loss of his daughter, and it's offensive that people are criticizing him for it. I have been to several funerals, I have witnessed family members and friends switch in and out of laughter and tears. They think of fond memories of the one they lost, they tell stories, they laugh, and they cry. People grieve in different ways and we have no idea what's going through this mans mind. Maybe he was thinking of his daughters smile as she woke up every day, and it made him smile, then he was told he's about to go live, so he snapped back to reality. To me it does not seem right to criticize his reaction here, and it's not evidence of a conspiracy. Theory 5: Emillie Parker is not dead. This is the most absurd thing I have seen so far in the video. The video alleges not only that the girl is not dead, but that the parents were so stupid they brought out the wrong sister for the photo op. What? Do people honestly believe that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTaC580hfPo It's a picture of her sister. Obviously. They look alike because, you know, they're sister's. This guy uses the same photoshop trick as the conspiracy video and gets the same effect. Check out their noses in this picture for further evidence: http://i.imgur.com/iSuf4.jpg Theory 6: One piece of footage of the crime scene does not show many ambulances and shows no children. The author claims this means this was all staged. He goes on to say that only one ambulance was there the whole time and they quickly blocked off all exits. The problem with this is twofold. Firstly, there are several pictures of multiple ambulances (here are a few): http://imgur.com/hb6kZ,XGWSd#1 http://www.politico.com/story/2012/...ooting-official-says-gunman-killed-85094.html Secondly, this footage that the videos author is commenting on looks to be taken well after the shooting took place, which easily explains why there aren't a bunch of ambulances around and no one is panicking anymore. A fellow redditor describes here that based on the position of the sun in the sky, this video was shot well in the afternoon, 6-7 hours after the shooting took place. More things taken out of context because they fit the authors narrative. Theory 7: Time stamps on the webpage set up for donations state the page was created before the shootings took place. Google search results do not always accurately reflect the date the content was published. Example) Here is a date restrictive search of sandy hook, listing all articles that appear to be published before the shooting took place. Well ****, according to google this there are articles and videos from these dates talking about the shooting: Jan 14, 2012 , Jun 19, 2012 , Sept 16, 2012 ..well before the shooting took place. Debunked. Addition: People keep bringing up the facebook page that was made prior to the shooting. The creator of the page said they had made an unrelated page previously, it had no fans in it. After the shootings took place, she renamed the page to be a memorial for one of the victims. This changed the URL, but kept the original creation date of the group. Many claim this is not possible or this is not how facebook works. Here is proof that it is: http://imgur.com/a/U6wWH Theory 8: There was a planned FEMA meeting scheduled 20 minutes from the time of the shooting which helped slow down the response time of first responders.(Added due to popular demand). I went to the emergency services website for CT to investigate this. This class is offered regularly. It was offered on 11/17, 11/27, 12/3, 12/6, 12/14, and 12/17 In fact, digging a little deeper you can see they have had training classes like these for a long time, such as this one way back on 4/2/2012 called Emergency Planning for Schools (2 day course): http://www.ct.gov/demhs/ical/eventDetail_page.asp?date_ID=CACBCCCDCE83CDCACA These tragedies have been happening for awhile, and so has training people to respond to them. Debunked. Other stuff: The people that made this video clearly have their own agenda, which is why they keep bringing up 9/11 and the London bombings (two completely unrelated events). Any time a large, tragic event occurs, many of these conspiracy theorists do their best to gather all of the media reports, then pick and choose to take the media out of context and create their own crazy conspiracy driven narrative for the events that took place. If you are skeptical of this video, you should be. It's crap.
Will rep when I get home at not on my phone. Destroyed this ridiculous theory. What do you have to say BMW?
That, that is exactly what I like to see posted. But you and pretty much every body have seem to made up yalls mind on how I view this situation. (that it's a conspiracy and didn't happen) I told you a million times of what I thought, but yet it's pretty much you're a nut bag , you think it was set up, blah blah blah. And that's not the case. Oh you didn't pick a side, just in case this blows up in your face you'll have an easy exit. Also not the case. Basically there was a bunch of stories here and there, told differently by the same folks. Maybe I over analyze it or looked to much into it, but I can't help the way I think. Maybe if you posted stuff like Go Korea posted instead of just slamming someone the whole time this would be one page long and looked past already. But it's ok, like I said from the beginning , never said it did or didn't happen. So that's that, I'm done with this thread. Your mind is made up, end of story.
