Why are conservative arguments so often irrational?

Declarations of irrationality are a good way to avoid a clear discussion of ideas, since irrational ideas can be dismissed out of hand.

What you're doing is a passive agressive form of the usual marginilzation practiced by lefties here.

Instead of Sam Fisher style open ridicule and contempt, it's phony intellectual curiosity.

"Tell me why you're so dumb", in so many words.

 

To continue to believe that a Romney landslide was inevitable even up to 8PM on 11/6/2012 was irrational.

 

This thread is awesome.

OP expresses a thought that many people have had before, and offers an interesting quote. He then asks for reasoned dialogue.

Most ignore this request.

The people most offended by his thought seem to go out of their way to prove it correct.

Rinse and repeat.

 

Largely due to an economic depression of epic proportions, tax cuts, wars, and automatic/systemic growth in entitlement costs which have literally nothing to do with the last four years. Seriously, you know this so why are you even bothering to advance such a silly canard.

And then you double down and say the current dysfunction in the Senate due to the filibuster 111th & 12th congresses and the nutjobs in the House is due to Democratic control.

Sorry but the "both-sides-do-it" argument shelf life expired about 2008 when things basically became broken to an unprecedented degree due largely to one set of actors, see Ornstein & Mann's work to find out who.

 

If I'm not mistaken, thadeus is not asking why conservatives are irrational, but why their irrationality exceeds the bounds of what would normally be expected of the opposing viewpoint.

So for example, there are conservatives everywhere in the world who appear irrational to liberals of each country, but I think particularly in America the irrationality is so obscene that it is hard to attribute it to a mere misunderstanding of the opposing thinker.

I tend to agree. Given the socio-economic factors, it is incredible what American conservatives believe. In a developed country with good education and decent income, for example some of the statements we've heard about rape are echoed only in the poorest and least educated dark corners of the planet. It is baffling, to say the least.

 

So, thadeus, is the topic of this thread "Why do conservatives believe what we believe" or is it "Why are you conservatives so stupid?" Because I'll play if it's the former, but I'm not going to waste my time if it's the latter.

 

Rather than debating theory, I find GOP positions fundamentally irrational. Here is why:

I believe we should lower federal taxes.
(...but harpoon 47% of Americans that don't pay federal income taxes)

I believe in the constitution and it is the bedrock of America.
(...but I want to amend the constitution to outlaw gay marriage)
(...and I also want to de-emphasize separation church/state)

I believe that life is sacred and we should protect the innocent unborn.
(...but I also believe in the death penalty and the Iraq war).

I believe we should reduce the deficit.
(...but I want to maintain a defense budget 10x larger than any country.)
(...and I also want to build a 3000 mile boarder fence.)
(...oh, and I don't want to raise taxes to reduce the deficit)

Those are just some of the things why I shake my head. If you boil the GOP platform down to it's core, it's riddled with contradictions (aka irrational). The only way to defend many of the positions is to counter attack liberals with a strawman and/or just continue to believe in what they believe.

 

Why are conservative arguments so often irrational?

I don't know. Chris?

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Lincoln's Cooper Union speech is much better than Neitzsche. I removed the particular issue he's talking about and changed (italics) it to current rhetoric so you can see the larger idea...

Or, you could just read it with the original references to slavery. Same arguments, same people.

 

Nothing like a disaster relief bill, best opportunity for corporate welfare and fraud/waste/abuse. Even better than a "for the children" bill.

If you question this, you are heartless. If you ask where the money comes from to pay for this, you are heartless.

And of course, irrational.

 

I didn't grow up in a fixed neighborhood/community, so I can't really compare there, but my positions are different from those of my family members.

I certainly think it's possible my perspectives are wrong. They can change. In fact, I was an Obama supporter in 2008 before changing to an "anybody but Obama" guy in 2012. The first thing that turned me against him was actually all the broken promises about reigning in the abuses of the Bush administration. As we've all seen, he's actually gone a step above and beyond anything Bush ever did.

I don't have a huge problem with tax increases. However, I do have a big problem with the way Obama phrases the need for tax increases as a "shared sacrifice" that he only actually wants the rich to share in. I think the Bush tax cuts should have expired for everyone. I don't want to live in a country where a majority of people feel comfortable telling everyone richer than them that they need to be paying more while simultaneously saying "I'm paying enough, thank you."

I also hate the way the SS/Medicare system is set up currently. I support both programs as a safety net for retirees who would otherwise be living in poverty, but I hate paying to support people who are capable of paying their own way, and yet still take more out of the system than they put in. I know anecdotal evidence is the worst kind, but I often like to point to my older relatives (85+) living off of SS and Medicare while sitting on a massive nest egg (a couple million) that they are going to be able to pass on to their good-for-nothing "kids" (aged 60+).

I think that's more than enough for everyone to pick at for now, so I'll check back in tomorrow.

 

That accusation is not coming from a democrat.

 

I don't think Conservatives on the floor are crazy. That big clumpy mass of "independents" is full of Cons sick and tired of holding their nose while pushing the lever.

I do think Conservative voters are more willing to follow orders against their best interest. Even when their political leaders are swindling hundreds of millions from their pockets, they're still placated by the bone that at least those evil libs didn't take their money under a gun and give it all away in the form of handouts.

 

While I might argue with some of those I don't think they are crazy and agree with you that Obama's record regarding civil liberties and the war on terror is very poor. The problem though with those arguments is that they so frequently get drowned out by calls that Obama is really a Kenyan Muslim Socialists out to disarm America so he can turn it into a commune that practices Sharia law.

 

Well, thing about it is that I don't quite view myself as a conversative persay. I view myself as an extreme nationalist whose loyalty is to the United States above everything. That just happens to be right-wing.

As for how I ended up that way? A good chunk is the community, the friends and family and all that. A lot of it is reading, particularly Marx (whom I have the utmost respect for as a historian. I just despise Marxism, not Marx himself), the Five Rings/bushido in general which stresses the importance of loyalty, duty, and service to your superiors and to the country.

 

JHC.....

Lets try this:

How does that sound to you? Condescending perhaps?

I bet its easier to understand why folks might be initially offended by your question rather than willing to answer it. Or maybe you're just trolling. I don't know...

(By the way... why are all liberals trolls?) - ***

Oh and your original question has a lot of "assumptions" in it. Key among them is that all conservatives believe in all conservative opinion all the time with no disagreement. Which is of course BULL****.

If you want to actually know what I think....start a new thread thats not so damned insulting.



***This is not meant to be a serious statement. Lighten up everyone.

 

The problem isn't Republicans, the problem is the evangelical right-wing nuts that have destroyed the party. Those people are truly stupid. The fiscal conservatives have a point...we do need to reform entitlements - but for long terms spending, not short term. You can't cut short term spending in a recession. You can get rid of corporate welfare and subsidies. But taking money out of poor/middle class people is basically sucking money out of businesses - because these people spend their money pretty quickly...in other words, drive the economy and let companies get wealthy.

There is a need for the rational voice of conservatism...and to keep the left in check...because left alone, Liberals will not make fiscally sound decisions. They have their own false ideology.

But the right isn't being the rational voice of conservatism. It's being the idiotic voice of the most radical, uninformed, and fanatical part. Need to cut that cancer out and let it make it's own entity so the Republican Party can go back to being something that contributes to the world.

 

It's because you post dumb ****.