James Harden is as good a playmaker as Jeremy Lin.

So, going back to my previous point, would you consider Wilt Chamberlain "the greatest playmaker" of all time? I wouldn't. But it's semantics, I get your point. Sometimes you just have to call your own number and that's a play like any other play.

 

Can you give Wilt Chamberlain the ball at half court and ask him to create a shot for himself or for others?

 

Here is the thing, if you put Lin # 1 option for offense, you don't know what happen.

Even Melo know what he have to do to win the game after experience the Linsanity--- Something is called sacrifice and play team ball.

 

Great observation on when Lin leaves the game. But its obvious you are just observing Lin. For example, when we played OKC we where only down by 4 or 2 points when Lin went out. But did you observe that Durant was 1-8 shooting during the time the Rockets where close...???

No you didn't... You only paid attention to Lin. You didn't notice that Durant started to heat up and that's why OKC broke the game open. But you only think that it was because Lin was taking out the game and had nothing to do with the NBA scoring champion over the past few seasons started hitting his shots.

And the Rockets have been amongst the top 3 scoring teams from the start of the season (scoring 130 points against NYC in November)..

And now you are comparing Harden to Mello like all Harden does for this team is score and nothing else...

Like I said _ JLin is not even in the top 15 of point guards in the NBA and Harden is amongst the top 3 of shooting guards (averaging one less assist than Lin). There is no comparison regardless of how you spin it...

 

Rubio as a threat individually doesn't draw defensive attention. In fact he draws less defensive attention than Lin does. In fact when Rubio is out there guys are playing 4 on 5 because he isn't a threat to score at all.

The gap is 5% Lin accounts for 28% of the teams overall assists % harden accounts for 22%. This is a per possession statistic not per game.

 

Fundamentally I don't think this argument can ever really be settled as there are two different definitions of "play making" at work.

Harden is an elite scorer.
Lin is an above average to good floor general.

They both serve different roles, and both have different impacts on the scoring line and on the team's success.

Yes, Harden draws double teams often as he's the most threatening scorer on the team. Lin tends to draw double teams when Harden is off the floor, or in the case of OKC, whenever Lin has the ball.

They both pose different threats to the opponent.

However, I believe that Lin elevates the team's level of play in a different way than Harden does in terms of team effort when they are working to find open spots on the floor versus making space in driving lanes for a Harden ISO and kick out/drop off pass.

In the end which would get the team more wins if it was one or the other? I think it depends a lot on the opposition.

Lin has the ability to carve up a lot of different defenses, but not all of them. Harden can score on almost any team, but is his own scoring enough to offset the reduced performance of his team mates?

Fortunately, we won't have to find out the answer to that question, as we have the luxury of having multiple players with the ability to create plays. Harden and Lin, and to a lesser extent Parsons, Douglas and Delfino give us the luxury of being able to just sit back and enjoy the show.

While Harden and Lin aren't *perfect* fits, they do have a lot of synergies when they're both on the floor that makes the sum of the two greater than either one alone, at least in the context of winning games.

We really do have the luxury of a "pick your poison" situation.

It's really quite impressive that a duo as young as Harden and Lin in their first year on the floor together are already in the discussion for the best back court in the entire NBA.

We really are in a great situation moving forward as a team. :grin:

 

That's why stat's are "deceptive"..it can make someone into a superstar..Harden is really good and a lot greater than JLin is..that's a fact..but it does not necessarily mean that he is the best of the two in terms of play making..

Points - yes, he should be because he is the number 1 option..but it's deceptive too because in most nights, his points are from FT.

As much as I like him but sometimes I do wish that he refrains from initiating contacts against the opposing guards just to get a foul from them..it's really not good for his image..but I do understand that it's also a part of his talent that is giving us wins...smh

 

That wasn't my definition... But I cant debate with people who have their own agenda and personal interest for a player and don't even look at all the stats...

So you win. Lin is the best and Harden is garbage... This team would have the same record if we had Kevin Martin (-¿▼)

 

So free throws don't count...??? Lol..

 

Hence, the reason why I don't consider him an elite playmaker. He is a good playmaker because of his passing skills, but he isn't a big enough threat individually to cause havok amongst defenses.

And Lebron accounts for 31% of the team's assists whereas Westbrook 40% of his team's assists.

 

What you're misinterpreting from my quote is that I don't consider assist numbers the be all and end all criteria for judging playmaking. If Lin (or Harden) penetrated, drew a defender, and created a passing lane to Asik for a freebee which Omer goes on to drop or miss, turning a sure assist into a
TO, those are just numbers. My subjective view of that play will override such stastical nonsense.

So, it matters not whether Lebron has more or less assists than Westbrook, I'd still give the nod to Lebron, as that's what I've witnessed thus far. Though the caveat is, as statistics aren't on my side, I'd have to give Westbrook's game another look in case I was prejudiced or missing something.

Similarly, just because Lin has better assists numbers doesn't mean that he is the better playmaker, in fact, there are many other PGs with better assists numbers (though perhaps not after than horrible first month) than Lin who I do not believe are better playmakers. I love Harden's game and see the vision that he has, but still give the clear nod to Lin (imho) as I see plays made where there was none, football passes which made buckets out of plays in which TD would have just galloped down ahead of everyone just to pass it back to Harden, no look passes that fool everyone even the cameramen, ultra-quick outlets, zinging passes to a cutting Chandler, etc. a bit more times with Lin than Harden.

It doesn't mean Harden shouldn't be our 1st option, just that I would rather our PG play point, not our shooting guard, as our pg is more than capable.

 

yeah, by telling the point to toss it to him once he's in the post.

 

he said at half court not at the post

 

yeah, by giving it back to the point and telling the point to toss it back to him once he's in the post.

there, fixed for ya.

 

Ok I see. Fair enough. Everybody has a different definition of playmaker. I think what torocan says stands.

 

so no wilt is not a playmaker

 

lebron is a superior playmaker compared to lin

 

No, of course not!!

 

we agree to disagree

 

And btw, if you didn't get it, it was an attempt at a joke! I guess I failed miserably there..