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Why are conservative arguments so often irrational?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by thadeus, Jan 1, 2013.

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  1. thadeus

    thadeus Member

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    This is a question that I've had for awhile. Reading through any number of the debate threads I find that the arguments advanced by self-identified conservatives are usually riddled with logical fallacies, or lacking any sort of rigorous analytical observation altogether. Conservatives seem to post links to support their positions that actually refute their positions, or, at least, add nuances that make their overall point far less salient. I've been amazed at how resistant conservatives seem to rational, and thorough, refutations of their positions. Most of the explanations I've held or have heard for this have been unsatisfactory - I don't want to just think they're dumb, or that they're in the constant state of reaffirming their own biases (though, to some extent, we all are).

    I'm not a liberal (I put that here because if you disagree with conservatives their knee-jerk reaction is to call you a liberal), but I find that I disagree with stated conservative positions far more frequently because of the sorts of things I listed above. I don't have positions on many of the pundit-pushed topics populating the 24-hour news networks, and I don't identify myself as a liberal. I find, if anything, my responses to these arguments are not pro-liberal or anti-conservative, but instead are anti-irrationality.

    So, I'm reading and I come across one start at an explanation that makes sense to me. From section 29 of "The Gay Science" by Nietzsche"

    [rquoter]When people in France began to attack the Aristotelian unities, and others therefore began to defend them, one can see once again what can be seen so often but what one hates to see: one lied, mendaciously inventing reasons for these laws, simply to avoid admitting that one had become used to these laws and no longer wanted things to be different. The same process occurs, and has always occurred, in every prevalent morality and religion: the reasons and purposes for habits are always lies which are added only after some people begin to attack these habits and to ask for reasons and purposes. At this point the conservatives of all ages are thoroughly dishonest: they add lies. [/rquoter].

    This seems plausible to me. Self-identified conservatives "believe" in those things they've become habitually accustomed to. They don't make rational arguments in favor of those things because those things are based on tradition (however they may perceive that) and not on rational conclusions. There are a lot of implications in this, much more than I'm describing here.

    This explains a few things - it explains why arguments in favor of conservative positions are so frequently irrational, it explains why conservatives always seem outnumbered on internet message boards (because most of them don't feel compelled to argue for positions they simply believe - the conservatives are still there, reading, but not responding), and why so many conservative posters refuse to directly answer questions about their positions.

    I'm curious - why do (a handful) conservatives actually engage in debate over these things? What is there to gain? If you simply believe what you believe, wouldn't others need to be indoctrinated in the same manner to believe those things? If so, what's the point of arguing?

    I still have questions of course, but Nietzsche's words seem accurate to me.

    I'm sure self-identified liberals will be happy to pile on and agree, but I'm actually wondering if there are better ways to get at this question. I'm not looking for moral support.

    Conservatives/liberals, what do you think? Am I just a big stupid dumb libtard communist?
     
    #1 thadeus, Jan 1, 2013
  2. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    Pretentiousness up in here!

    This is an over-loaded question if ever there was one.

    I think the true answer is: they are irrational because you don't like their views.
     
    #2 napalm06, Jan 1, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  3. thadeus

    thadeus Member

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    Yeah, this is what I was expecting.
     
    #3 thadeus, Jan 1, 2013
  4. YaosDirtyStache

    YaosDirtyStache Member

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    incredibly wrong N_B.

    The real answer is...theyre crazy.

    You most often see the Conservatives as the ultra-hypocritical of the two. Hate gays? Get caught in a bathroom trying to get your nut off on a dude. Dont drink bc of religion? Get pulled over on New Years drunk as balls.

    At least the Dems basically say "Look who I am, I am everyone" not "For the bible tells me so, and I love to suck pee pee while my old ugly wife flicks her bean and cries" that the Reps rep.
     
    #4 YaosDirtyStache, Jan 1, 2013
  5. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Well we know there is a conservaive gene. It might affect the frontal cortex or whatever part of the brain that is required for slow/rational thinking. Scientific knowlege has not totally fleshed this out.

    Now speaking of science, it is definitely largely a rational construct and conservatives don't seem as a whole to believe much of it. They prefer to believe in tradition as you posit-Bible studies or ideological oriented theories like supply side economics, despite accounting evidence to the contrary and do not find evolution and man caused climate change to be at all more proven than traditional Bible stories.

    Thadeus, I agree it is curious, but that is about the best answer I can give you.
     
    #5 glynch, Jan 1, 2013
  6. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I believe part of the reason is that the conservatives represent the establishment wart and all. When you are comfortable with the social order, you will do anything to protect all parts of it, even if it is irrational. Many conservatives really believed allowing blacks to vote or gays to marry would erode the social order and take away the establishments rights or shake the power structure.

    On issues where Republicans can make gains, they often are painted as racist or insensitive.
     
    #6 Nook, Jan 1, 2013
  7. Rocketball

    Rocketball Member
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    the TRUTH!!!!

    Imagine that, a liberal thinks conservatives are crazy/irrational and conservatives think liberals are crazy/irrational........go figure, talking about going out on a limb.......

    Nothing to see here, lock 'er up and let's move on to a real discussion........
     
    #7 Rocketball, Jan 1, 2013
  8. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Not really, it's more of an American thing. There's no other country in the world where conservatives consistently deny things like evolution and climate change, constantly fight progress through the UN. In this country were still debating things like this along with universal health care and gun control. The rest of the civilized world has already decided these things and moved on. The American brand of conservatism is particularly crazy and irrational.

    Funny that he mentioned multiple times that he's not a liberal and that simply disagreeing with conservatives gets you painted as a liberal. Sure enough, first thing you do is call him a liberal.
     
    #8 CometsWin, Jan 1, 2013
  9. thadeus

    thadeus Member

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    You actually have this backwards. I don't like their views because they're irrational.

    And it's nice that, on the first page of this thread, I get called a liberal.
     
    #9 thadeus, Jan 1, 2013
  10. Major

    Major Member

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    The inability of the House GOP to do anything suggests otherwise.

    1. Bipartisan negotiation breaks down.
    2. House GOP says we'll pass something ourselves
    3. House GOP is unable to agree on or pass anything.
    4. House GOP says "well, it's up to the Senate figure something out"
    5. Senate figures something out getting 89 Senators on board.
    6. House GOP says "hmm, no."
     
    #10 Major, Jan 1, 2013
  11. split41

    split41 Member

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    What kind of discussion did you think would happen with such a loaded question? The only people who will seriously discuss this topic with you are those who already agree with you, which, in turn, isn't much of a discussion but more of a circle jerk.
     
    #11 split41, Jan 1, 2013
  12. thadeus

    thadeus Member

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    I'd love to see conservatives discuss the origins of their ideas, when they came to them, and so on.

    As much as it appears that I'm making a simple value judgment, I'm not. Conservative arguments are frequently completely irrational, and the reasons always sound as if they were made up after the fact. I'm trying to find reasons why. I'm not even sure why conservatives would insist that their arguments are rational.

    I presented my viewpoint, the new viewpoint from the Nietzsche quotation, and I feel as if it explains things well.

    It's interesting to note that one of the typical run-arounds has already been established: you're just a liberal trying to insult me! therefore I will avoid discussing the question!

    I'm not trying to insult anyone.
     
    #12 thadeus, Jan 1, 2013
  13. dmoneybangbang

    dmoneybangbang Member

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    ^This. During the 8 years of the Bush Administration we simultaneously cut taxes, put two wars on credit, expanded Medicare prescription program, and had a worldwide economic crisis and now Republicans appear to be concerned about the deficit once a democrat is elected. :confused:
     
    #13 dmoneybangbang, Jan 1, 2013
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  14. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    When something doesn't go their way its rigged or there is a conspiracy.
     
    #14 fchowd0311, Jan 1, 2013
  15. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    It's hilarious to me that lefties are calling the right irrational. Remember, dims, that you're the party that wants to:

    • Raise taxes
    • Increase government spending irresponsibly
    • Kill unborn babies through allowing abortion to be legal
    • Allow marriage based on some people's sexual preference to have anal sex with other men
    • Wreck the economy through legislation aimed at reducing CO2 emissions (at least they've backed off this boogeyman and conceded)
     
    #15 bigtexxx, Jan 1, 2013
  16. Steve_Francis_rules

    Steve_Francis_rules Member

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    To be fair, it's very hard for liberals to be caught in hypocritical situations when they're much more likely to take the position that if you aren't hurting anyone, do whatever you want. You're less likely to see their personal failings as hypocritical because they don't openly aim to live by very rigid standards.
     
    #16 Steve_Francis_rules, Jan 1, 2013
  17. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Member

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    Challenge still stands texxx.

    ties in well with the premise of this thread.
     
    #17 Northside Storm, Jan 1, 2013
  18. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Member

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    As for the rest of your assertions---

    http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-economic-experts-panel/poll-results?SurveyID=SV_8oABK2TolkGluV7

    http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-economic-experts-panel/poll-results?SurveyID=SV_eM6AbvcBTI8MuvG

     
    #18 Northside Storm, Jan 1, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2013
  19. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Exhibit A on crazyville.
     
    #19 CometsWin, Jan 1, 2013
  20. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Why shouldn't you be able to marry a 16 year old?
     
    #20 bigtexxx, Jan 1, 2013
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