If you're going to move the goalpost of the argument to whether or not Lin is above replacement level(say a Shaun Livingston), then I agree Lin is better than scrub. But I thought this thread is about whether or not Lin should be benched when he's sucking?
I don't know if you can read Chinese but I suggest you to read this : http://bbs.hupu.com/4748754.html (yup I'm max.)
LOL, I knew there would be a chorus us "OMG +/- stats are useless and so misleading!" posts as soon as I posted those On/Off numbers. Of course, none of you guys even bothered to read the comment those stats were posted in response to. Here it is again: That's not a claim about who is the "better" player. Its a claim about what the team does when one player is on the floor versus off the floor. It is absolutely valid to use +/- stats to validate such a claim, because that is precisely what +/- stats are meant to describe.
You need to chill out on that hate. It's my opinion of him. And Im not saying he's a Great ball player as in one of the greats like Magic or Bird. Like when I say the Usual Suspects is a great movie, I really don't have to qualify anything. I don't even think Lin's been the 3rd most valuable player on the team this far. What's up with the defensive hate meh. I know you don't think TD is better than JLin. Do you?
No it does not. I disagree with you. I don't even think you believe it. I can be on the floor playing well while my teammates aren't hitting their shots or the other team gets hot, and be on the court the next day messing up while my team gets hot and the other teams bricks everything screwing up the stats. In response to your point that it was a response to the previous comment and that everyone's response to your reply is funny, you are being blinded by your desire to win the argument and are missing basic logic. Had your conclusion been that therefore +/-s can be deceiving or worthless it would be fine. But you were basically saying along with meh that your stats tell us that Lin is a net negative and can/should be interchanged with Toney freakin Douglas when Toney's playing well or at the first hint of Lin missing shots. That's ridiculous and that was the raison d'être of this thread
It's simple confirmation bias. Some people are just going to find either certain stats or certain games/plays to keep reinforcing their beliefs. The fact is they don't think Lin is a good player and so everything good he does is "out of the norm," while everything bad he does is what he's "really supposed to be." There's no arguing with these people because they're already set in their ways. Even if they were to watch the game, in their minds they are looking for his flaws and will disregard his contributions as luck. Anyway, don't bother wasting your time. It's still too early in the season to really make any determination and definitely way too early in his career to make a statement about how he is as a player.
Someone claimed that the Rockets tend to lose leads when Lin is off the floor, and the "stats" can't tell us otherwise. Guess what, +/- stats say otherwise. That's the "basic logic" of it. If you feel that one shouldn't look at what the team does with a player on or off the floor to inform substitution patterns that's fine, but its irrelevant to my post. The guy I was responding evidently felt that how the team is playing without Lin matters. Its a major failure of reasoning to first make a claim to support the argument for keeping Lin on the floor, and then when its contradicted clearly by the stats go on to say "Oh, well those stats are irrelevant because clearly Lin is better and should be playing."
It's pretty obvious Lin wasn't much of an impact for most of the season, even he said he was played terrible. What's there to hate on Durvs stats?
Ironic, IronicMan, because clearly you missed the "context" in which I posted those numbers to begin with (guy saying if you go through games, Rockets tend to lose ground when Lin is off the floor and stats can't tell us otherwise).
Once again, you're missing it. It's simply not true logically. First off, im not even speaking as to whether Lin is a +/- or not. Just strictly from a logical point of view, Lin can have the exact effect that the other person mentioned while sill having a bad +/- figure depending on when the +/- occurs. During crucial moments Lin can sit down and due to TDs inability to run an offense as a pg, the team can lose its lead. And even after 2,3 repetitions of this, in the fourth if the other team goes on a run leading to a loss it can even out or even go the other way. In this scenario, Lin could have clearly been the catalyst for a good run n gun type of game where he was a net positive and still have a negative +/- . I do see your point, but just sayin'
Durvasa, this is what I meant when I said you need to watch games before making deep analysis. Again you went off with your stats but you are missing crucial points and the context. FYI, I don't think Lin is the best PG in the league or anything. I just think that Lin is our best PG at this moment (Because Harden should play as an SG) and TD is not a good alternative for closing out close games. It's ok, the more games you actually watch, the more you will notice.
By your logic, under this constant threat of being benched, almost no young players will be developed and 99% of the stars would be gone... Last night, Westbrook was 3 for 16 !!! He should have been benched long and hard time ago, before play over 40 minutes...
