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Free Jeremy Lin

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by LCII, Nov 16, 2012.

  1. split41

    split41 Member

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    Correlation ≠ Causation
     
  2. formido

    formido Member

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    This was actually an incredibly dense hatchet job. Lin's defense was fantastic last year. His team defense is elite and team defense is much more important to wins and losses than on-ball defense, but on-ball defense is so much easier to notice and criticize. Punishing players for getting burned without noticing how many threats they neutralize by help defense leads to bad team defense, which is a shame.

    Earlier in the season, the Rockets were 5th in team defensive efficiency. Lin was helping off his man constantly. He got benched a few times for getting "burned", which of course you will be when you take calculated risks on help defense. Since then, he's stuck closer to his man, and Houston's defense has really suffered.

    To get an understanding of Lin's effect on team defense when he is unencumbered, note that last year Lin/Tyson Chandler had the #1 two man lineup defensive efficiency on the Knicks among combinations playing more than 500 minutes. They were 17th in the NBA overall among possible pairings. This was on a #5 ranked defense. Moreover, Lin was #2 among all starting point guards in steals-blocks-charges taken/40, just behind Rubio.

    Pruitti, incredibly bizarrely, decided to focus on points per play only on isolation, because the numbers for overall points per play didn't say what he wanted them to. Like I said, hatchet job. We know that Lin can be a central player on a top rated defense because he's already done it.

    Anyway, in the same way that you no longer hear folks on Seahawks forums acting as the "voice of reason" in preaching how we must take a wait-and-see attitude toward Russell Wilson, it won't be long before those posts die off here. We've already started to see it.
     
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  3. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    That happened several games afterwards. What was Lin's FG% for the season just before the game in which Sampson said that? Also, during that particular game, did the Rockets play better when Lin was on the floor or when Douglas was on the floor?

    What's so difficult with the notion that Lin is just playing better now, and because he's playing with more confidence and less hesitation he's being entrusted with the ball more. The assumption from you guys is that Lin's confidence has to be given to him by the coaches through force-feeding him the ball. I think this is backwards. Confidence comes from within the player, and then the coach responds by entrusting the player more to make plays.

    The Rockets believed that Lin would eventually come around and that's what happened. But in game, I firmly believe that a coach's priority should be to just win the game, not run an extended practice session to get certain players more reps with the ball.
     
  4. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Just so I'm clear, you're not disputing the claim that Lin's on-ball defense was poor. You just think that's irrelevant because overall the Knicks were good defensively with him and DPOY Tyson Chandler on the floor together?

    When a player switches teams, you can't assume the "team defense" will carry over automaticaslly because that's obviously very much dependent on how he worked with a different set of teammates.
     
    #1424 durvasa, Dec 26, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2012
  5. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    I realize that. I'm asking for any shred of evidence to support the contention Sampson's coaching was responsible for Lin's poor performance. For example, did Lin play worse with Sampson than he did prior to Sampson taking over? And if not, why should I believe that Sampson's substitution patterns negatively impacted Lin's performance?
     
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  6. roxxy

    roxxy Member

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    Interesting post I just wanted to focus on this paragraph. First of all I have always had this opinion since I became really interested in the NBA. I always feel that a player is only as good as a coach has confidence in them. That is one school of thought. The other school of thought is explained in your post above. It just depends on how you believe.

    Two of my three favourite coaches are Mike Dantoni & Dwayne Casey. What I love about them is that they always have confidence in the players. Dantoni never took Howard out in games when they did Hack A Howard & now Dwights FT shooting has improved over the last several games. Take Casey, despite Andrea's poor shooting & defense Casey always says that Andre is my guy. He does the same with DeMar & Casey's support is something that DeMar always uses as a reason for his strong work ethic.

    Frankly players LOVE playing for coaches like that because they know that the coach will go out of there way to make them look good, Mike Dantoni in particular. Another example is Mike Woodson. Raymond Felton has been playing like doodoo the last three weeks but Woodson continues to play him. Woodsons love affair also extends to JR Smith who is a frustrating player as well & is often hot & cold but JR has been delivering It is frustrating to see sometimes but players prefer it that way.

    If you watched Lin in GSW, the HC Keith Smart had no confidence in him whatsoever (it was reported by GSW Beat writers) & Lin obviously did not play well. Now I am not arguing the Lin situation in relation to Houston just discussing the overriding theme that you detailed in your paragraph above.

    I think (& I have thought this for sometime now) that it is the coaches job to put players in a position to be successful. After that is done then the players have to deliver not the other way around. If the player doesn't deliver then they are useless but every player deserves that shot. Obviously you subscribe to the other school of thought which is perfectly fine, just wanted to share with you the opposing view point.

    Just a few thoughts.
     
  7. ERC

    ERC Member

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    +1

    I never get why some fans would think Lin lost his confidence, or that the coaches thought TD was better than Lin, or that Sampson hated him so much that he benched Lin whenever he was playing well, etc. Lin seemed like a grounded guy with a quiet confidence and resilience. Considering his path to where he is now, it's hard to fathom he'd lose confidence at the small set-back early in the season. As for the coaches decision, I thought it was logical for them to wait for Lin to round into form and not rush him.
     
  8. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    It seems Lin seems to just be physically feeling better with recovery from his knee injury. He seemed a step slow at the start of season and often drove into a crowd and couldn't finish. Now he's getting to the open spots that he wants to more often. Seems like the natural process of recovering from meniscus surgery.

    I wonder what Morey's accelerometer readings say.


    Also, very much doubt any of the coaches are biased against Lin. Why reason do they possibly have to hate him? Why would they rationally want to keep down their boss's prized FA signing?
     
  9. ch0c0b0fr34k

    ch0c0b0fr34k Member

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    ^Two of your three favorite coaches is D'Antoni and Dwayne Casey??

    I'm at loss for words...
     
  10. ERC

    ERC Member

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    I can't recall where I read it, but IIRC the accelerometer stats showed that Lin has the fastest acceleration on the team.

    Agreed with you about the coaches attitude towards Lin (that there's no reason for them to hate Lin).
     
  11. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    I understand that coaches should try to put young players in a position to succeed. I think the Rockets have done that. Lin continued to get 30+ MPG even when he was shooting < 35% from the field for a good chunk of the season. The Rockets don't run a very structured offense. Its not like the coach is calling a play every time down for a particular player go get a certain kind of shot. Its push to ball up the floor, and if you can't find something then flow into a pick-and-roll style offense. That offense is exactly the sort of offense that Lin can thrive in. And as the PG, Lin had quite a lot of freedom to make himself more involved in the offense, if he chose to do so. It just took him a while to figure out how to balance his own offense with Harden's considerable scoring ability. The coaches have given him more opportunity to run the team without Harden next to him, but that's after he's showed improved efficiency which to me is the correct approach for them to take.
     
  12. parksn306

    parksn306 Member

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    As much as it is tempting to criticize the coaching staff's handling of Lin this season, the fact of the matter is that Lin is rolling right now.

    Could he have gotten on track sooner with better coaching? We will never know, but really, who cares.

    Lin has been on a TEAR the last 10 games, let's hope it continues into the post-season! You don't necessarily have to give credit to the coaches, but the results speak for themselves. Now let's see if we can't overtake the Warriors in the standings!
     
  13. split41

    split41 Member

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    I'm not part of this argument, I just wanted to point out that just because Lin has played well post-sampson, doesn't mean credit should go to Sampson. From your argument, as I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), you suggest that Sampson shouldn't be blamed for contributing to Lin's confidence issues because Lin has played better since? In regards to the evidence you requested, I don't know how anybody can give you any evidence of what you're asking, as it's mainly subjective. I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but I think that the people ****ting on Sampson point to the return of McHale and Lin's improvement as evidence (?), which I also say to them correlation ≠ causation.

    I do think Lin's confidence was an issue, and the democratic ball statement wouldn't've helped. As of late, though, maybe last 2-3 weeks, McHale has stressed they want Lin to attack, I guess they've really drilled it into Lin lately, because in most interviews prior and during his good play he keeps saying he needs to stay aggressive.

    I would say there's also been more of a Lin focus as of late, he's getting more screens and more pnr opportunities etc.

    I'd say early in the season is when you want to make sure you're star is comfortable (Harden) and now that he's found his groove they can start working on the other players.

    I don't blame Sampson or the coaching for Lin's slump, I agree with you to an extent that Lin has just been playing better, but I also think another reason he's been playing better is because the coaching staff has focused on Lin's strengths more. I think it's a combination of factors really, but I will say that Sampson loves TD too much for my liking.

    Anyways, although, I guess I have a pseudo-stance here now, I don't really have a side, because this argument is too subjective and based around too much hearsay.
     
  14. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    I'm not arguing that Sampson is responsible for Lin's improved play. If someone says Lin's confidence was destroyed by Sampson, that's not a subjective claim. That's a claim which should be based on some observation about Lin's performance.

    Fair enough.
     
  15. split41

    split41 Member

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    Fair enough, I don't think you'll get a substantial answer out of anyone, fans tend to speak in that hyperbole, matter-of-fact tone e.g. this thread title "Free Jeremy Lin"

    I don't think anyone could say without a doubt that Sampson destroyed Lin's confidence, it looked pretty destroyed pre-sampson.

    I think you may be trying to draw blood from a rock with your question...
     
  16. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    Lin must be on Royce White's level of mental illness if his confidence is completely destroyed by "I thougt TD was a better match up" by his coach".

    And no one has yet to answer Durv's question because they know they have been wrong the whole time with the spamming every thread with "Coach's conspiracy against Lin to send him back into the dleague bullshet"
     
  17. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    If I felt a player's performance was being hindered by certain decisions made by the coach, I would first check if the performance really did get worse after the coach made that decision. If I can't even establish that, then there's really no basis for my suspicion.
     
  18. Knickskiller

    Knickskiller Member

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    nothing much u can do if get benched

    --- anyway i am getting sick and bored of this subject. :mad:The rockets are moving on lets move on! ;)It's like a new team now. :grin:
     
  19. raskol

    raskol Contributing Member

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    Lin was not playing the pg position after the first couple of games until his "breakout" game against San Antonio. For that, I do blame the coaching staff. Nonetheless, it's still on Lin to stay aggressive no matter what. Either way, the end result? Water seeks its own level. Alls as it should be. It played itself out naturally as it usually always does.
     
  20. JJ23

    JJ23 Rookie

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    Since the NY game at MSG, I think Lin has been officially freed to play his game. With Lin as the primary playmaker, we have had 4 blow outs in a row. Hope it continues.
     

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