The Topic of Gun Control and How it Relates to Recent Mass Shootings

reading all this herp and derp about 2nd amendment rights and civil war brewing

 

Believe it. It is precisely BECAUSE we are this stupid and this incapable of rational thought that people should NOT be trusted with tools of murder.

 

go try pulling bullets out of little children and see if they come back to life.

 

Yes really. To use or even abuse alcohol or cigarettes you only need to be of age, or go to the next county...so much more regulation exists to use firearms beyond age requirements

You register in large part with ATF form 4473. Testing, sure

No amount of good regulation is perfect. It's like when a mentally ill person is able to purchase alcohol and then kills an entire family in a car...we truthfully need better ways to remedy the abuse and not the use.

Vanity half brought up a great idea I agreed with..

Out of my cold dead hands?....lol.

 

There are so many mentally unstable people. In college I met this guy who was anti-social but nice. Tried really hard to be people's friends but he had this angry streak and few wanted to be his friend. He once pulled a knife in a movie theatre on people talking. One summer, he raped a mentally disabled woman and we thought that was the end of him. But I found out a few year ago that he had a hit list of all his enemies, and my name was on that list near the very top.

It's been so many years, but I remember this guy to be so angry inside, and he had a big big interest in guns of all types.

Is this guy a ticking time-bomb. I don't know. I am sure he's more worried about living out his life now but how many people are there out there like this. You can't monitor them all. You can't identify who is going to go crazy and who is not.

I just say, ban any kind of gun that's meant for offense instead of hunting. Too many lunatics out there.

2nd Amendment is irrelevant at this stage. It's an out-of-date piece of the constitution and should be reversed. This has to be a wake up call.

 

He wants to kill you??? What is going on here???

 

You haven't really answered my questions. Would you then agree to banning of some things like we ban absinthe and moonshine? Would you agree to allowing municipalities to sue gun manufacturers? Would you agree to greater bans on where you can carry and use guns like we do with tobacco?

How do you explain the gun show loophole and the fact that mentally ill people who carried out mass shootings were able to legally obtain those weapons?

True no amount of regulation is perfect but you don't make the perfect the enemy of the good. If you are trying to stop abuse holding out for the perfect law isn't going to stop it.

It's a good idea which is why things like that are already done. I don't know if this is universal but several school districts do psychological evaluations of students. Teachers and staff are trained to look for psychological problems with students.

Further you act like this is an either or situation. It isn't we should be looking to identify the mentally ill and see that they are not a threat to themselves or others and also have more sensible gun regulation.

For what it's worth I think you are a good guy and are very responsible with your guns but to be blunt you are part of the problem.

You are so concerned about having as much lethal firepower as you can get that you are failing to see the larger picture. As I said before our laws are not based on those who are responsible.

 

What's the data on mentally ill people getting drunk and mowing down entire families in a car vs gun violence? Do you have that handy? It's like 10,000 deaths ever year from gun violence and how many killed by mentally ill drunk drivers?

It defies belief the extent to which you guys will pull all of this nonsense out of your asses to resist a change in the law with respect to guns. It's ridiculous.

 

Well. Regulated. Militia.

I cannot state this enough.

If you want to own a device meant for shooting ONLY people, then you need to be trained, examined, and reviewed on a regular basis.

http://www.vpc.org/studies/unincont.htm

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8QjZY3WiO9s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This was originally meant to protect us from tyranny, but now we need to look at it as a way to protect us from each other, and ourselves.

 

Moonshine has been banned in the way we already had guns banned probably about the sametime such as automatic tommy guns. So to answer the question there, it has been done in similar fashion to what alcohol has been banned. I would not allow the suing. We already have bans on where you can carry and use guns.

What gun show loophole? If it a loop hole then it is against the law. Prosecute at will there. Mental illness...more needs to be done

We need to do more and better mental assessment

We have sensible gun regulation. ATF forms, background checks and laws of carry, use, and storage

I think you are a good guy as well, but gun use is never the problem. It is the abuse. We need to focus on how to detect those that would abuse guns and to remedy on a case by case basis

The laws should be based on who is responsible. We make laws to conform to a responsible citizen and to penalize against those that don't. There is a second amendment right to bear arms

 

Realistically you can't ban guns in this country.

But we can make them really hard to obtain. We can ban assault weapons and ammo meant to cause heavy damage. We can ban magazines that can hold more than 10 bullets. We can put heavy taxes on guns and ammo to make even a hand gun very expensive. We can require yearly psychological reviews to registerred gun owners. We can make sure extensive background checks have been done on gun owners including references. And we can make owning an illegal gun come with even stiffer penalties.

 

What do you think about a home and family assessment review? Everyone who purchases guns must undergo a review to ensure family members are not mentally ill, and anyone who purchase guns must take a mental assessment class. Your last three sentences I can agree with but not the other wording.

 

I think those are good things you mention. I think it has to be comprehensive and attack the problem from many angles if we are going to prevent tragedies like this from happening.

And I have never heard of one instance where an assault rifle saved a citizen's life used in self-defense where a shotgun or non-automatic rifle would not have. Considering the number of homicides committed with these weapons - getting them out of the public hands should be a top priority.

 

I would love to see tougher gun laws. But I think the real issue is how little attention we pay to mental health. If you read about the kid that did this one, his whole life leading up to was one big warning sign. He didn't get the help he needed and a lot of innocent children and adults died because of it.

 

December 16th, 2012 10:15 PM
A Note From Michael Moore
By Michael Moore

I am truly beside myself this time. I tried to ring a warning bell about this a decade ago. The disease has only gotten worse.

But...you feel something different in the air across America tonight, don't you? People have had it and the outrage is loud and visible. I'm convinced the majority of Americans will now back strong gun control laws. And a better mental health care system. And perhaps a few are willing to look at the deeper issue of how this country officially sanctions violence as a means to an end.

The NRA, for the first time ever, has gone silent. They've taken their Facebook page down. They know they can't show up in Newtown next week and stick it to the people there, like they usually do after one of these mass killings. Let's face it, the gun lobby tonight is on the ropes. Now is the time to act. We can't let this sad moment pass without a true response and a president willing to be a strong leader.

I'll send some more thoughts tomorrow, but for now I thought I'd share with you what I've been sending out over Twitter this weekend. (If you're not on Twitter, please consider it. I know – not one more social media stop, please! But I've found it to be a quick and easy way to communicate with millions. Please give it a try. I send things out on it every day and I'd like you not to miss them.)

Here's my Twitter feed since the shootings on Friday:

CBS News reporting 27 dead at CT elementary school, many/mostly children.

Hoping, praying this isn't true. #schoolshooting

Only minutes away from pundits & politicians saying, "This isn't the time to talk about gun control." Really? When is that moment?
The way to honor these dead children is to demand strict gun control, free mental health care, and an end to violence as public policy.

Too soon to speak out about a gun-crazy nation? No, too late. At least THIRTY-ONE school shootings since Columbine.

19 years ago today was the FIRST Aurora gun massacre. Here's an essay from one who lived: http://mmflint.me/OOWJhi

Just 18 hrs ago, those Republicans in the Michigan House rammed thru a bill making it LEGAL to carry a gun into a school or day care center.

RT ‏@Marmel Hey, @BarackObama - you know all those nuts that fear you're going to take their guns? You can take their guns now.

RT @mat: The gun lobby already hates Obama. I wish he'd give them an actual reason.

The NRA hates freedom. They don't want you to have the freedom to send your children to school & expect them to come home alive
A Facebook post from Mark Kelly: http://mmflint.me/U0XlUU

This morning a crazy man attacked 22 children at an elementary school- in China. But all the crazy man had was a knife. Number of dead? Zero

In addition to his two handguns, the killer in CT this morning used an assault rifle called The Bushmaster.

RT ‏@ScribeHard @Burnman @AwardsDaily I never read a headline that said "Dozens of Children Dead in Hand-to-Hand Combat." Guns. Facilitate. Mass. Killings.

RT @peterbayley @MMFlint I didn't know you guys named your guns after presidents. How cute

Also located in Newtown, CT: the nat'l HQ of the National Shooting Sports Foundation, the lobbying & trade org of all the gun manufacturers http://mmflint.me/Uj9IZu

In 1996, Australia banned semi-automatics. In the 18 years before, there were 13 mass shootings. Since then, none.
RT @JDillon777 @MMFlint Sad to see that 'Bowling for Columbine' has gone ignored. Perhaps you should have directed Batman, and maybe they'd listen.

Hey NRA - why so quiet? Do you hear the rumble? The will of the people today? Coming your way. Think fast - the majority have had it.

From The Onion: http://mmflint.me/UIhSep

On this day in 1791 the Founding Fathers created the 2nd Amendment. It took a good 15 seconds to load 1 bullet (musket ball) then

Nation celebrates 2nd Amend. Day in past 24 hrs: Vegas: http://mmflint.me/ZviObI 'Bama: http://mmflint.me/U30404 OK: http://mmflint.me/Zv7V9M

From The Onion 2: "'Right To Live Life In Complete, Stunned Horror' Added To Constitution": http://mmflint.me/RvWJaW

RT ‏@RobbieGorlick After yesterday... canceling my #NRA membership. Can't support a group that costs the lives of innocents. @MMFlint @NRA pic.twitter.com/rs33PeMW

RT ‏@TimDempster @MMFlint It must be so infuriating knowing you warned against exactly this. Never fear, millions agree with you... Sadly mostly overseas!

Medical Examiner: Most of the dead were killed w/ the Bushmaster assault rifle. Fires 30 rounds a pop. Most kids shot "more than once."

Medical Examiner: If the dead children suffered "it was not for long."

As is often the case in these shootings, the gunman seemed to single out the women to kill (CNN: 18 of the dead are female; 8 males.)

Ooooh. Some men didn't like that last tweet. So let me give u another:When's the last time u saw a woman walk in & spray a place w/ bullets?

Pakistani children hold candlelight vigil for CT schoolkids: http://mmflint.me/UZUoE8 Ouch.

"@jfb97n: let the victims b mourned stop pushing ur agenda." I'm done with "mourning." Time for action. To do less dishonors their deaths.

Jimmy Greene moved his family fr Canada 2 Newtown in July. Daughter Ana was killed Fri; son Isaiah lived. Here they are http://mmflint.me/URvGRP

Saturday Night Live opens w/ children singing Silent Night in honor of slain first-graders of Newtown, CT: http://mmflint.me/UKUixG

Or try this one: http://mmflint.me/WfLtRu Very moving.

RT ‏@KathShx @MMFlint UK family moved to Newtown feeling "happy & comfortable" in the town - younger son died in the shooting. http://mmflint.me/WhBZl1 …

NY Times: In past 6 months, more Americans killed by guns than COMBINED total of dead Yanks in Iraq, Afghan & all terrorist acts of past 25 years.If only the first victim, Adam Lanza's mother, had been a gun owner, she could have stopped this before it started.

RT ‏@marlasuehale @MMFlint obviously that argument the NRA folks have been using doesn't work after all.

RT @kazic284 @MMFlint Thanks for pointing out how dumb that logic is. People have been screaming, "If only the principal had a gun!" Missing the point.

RT @mikelondoncan @MMFlint Number of homicides in Detroit, MI, 2010 - 310. Number in Windsor, ON, Canada, one mile away - 0. Same movies, video games.

Some are asking me why I'm not on TV discussing this. Because I've turned down all requests. Here's why: http://mmflint.me/UqcM6a

Time for action. The debate & discussion are over. Just as no one should debate whether "rape is legitimate," this gun debate is effing over

I said what I had to say about guns 10 yrs ago. Nothing's changed. You can watch this pirated version for free: http://mmflint.me/Jibbz0

MichalMoore.com

 

To me, the logic is simple:

There will always be crazies everywhere. Yes, mental health needs to be addressed.

But:

many crazies + no access to guns = still the occasional amok run, but not many

many crazies + many guns = more shootings committed by crazies with guns

 

Militias didn't exist when the Constitution was written. To the Founding Fathers, a well regulated Militia meant the gun owning populace.

So you want to regulate? If by that you mean free ammo weekends at the gun range? Sure.

 

The logic in indeed simple and so are the real world examples. See Australia above.

Time to overcome the gun lobby and their brainwashed Constitutionally challenged supporters.

Sadly it will probably take perhaps dozens or maybe hundreds more such mass killings and at more frequent intervals before we can overcome them.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_(United_States)

No, a well regulated militia meant a well regulated militia. The fact that this militia is constituted of members of the "gun owning populace" does nothing to change this.

No, I mean require you to be part of a standing, regulated organization that supplies routine training and some decent level of background checking and mental examination (you know, kind of like the police/army).

 

Gun ownership and gun use are two different things. Why are you grouping them?

The 2nd amendment doesn't protect the right to use a gun therefore it doesn't protect a right to own a gun? This makes no sense.

Either you appear on super partisan network media where you will be accused of causing the murder of children by some liberal host or you get branded a coward.....