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ClutchFans Game Thread: Celtics @ Rockets 12/14/2012

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Clutch, Dec 13, 2012.

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cfansnet Member

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JayGoogle said: ↑

The problem is posts like...

That.
Click to expand...

So take your anger out on the poster rather than trying to smear one of our players and thus causing even more drama.

torocan said: ↑

Lin played combo guard (both positions) at Harvard because he was not only the best scorer, but the best PG as well.

As a result in order to maximize overall talents, they had their 2nd PG sharing PG duties with Lin so that he wouldn't be double-teamed as often. In other words, Lin was the Harden on his team, except he was by far the best SG AND PG on the team.

On the Rockets, Lin is the best PG, but he's far from the best SG. On the other hand, there are tons of better shooting guards than Delfino OR Toney Douglas in the NBA.

So if the long term is to slide Harden over to the 1, then Lin becomes redundant, and both Delfino AND Douglas become a drag on the team. There are FAR better shooting guards that you can acquire for even part of what the Rockets are paying Lin.
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Thanks for the info. Kind of funny how Lin was the "Harden" of his college team

#1361 cfansnet, Dec 14, 2012

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Rockets12 said: ↑

I was surprised to see harden was in the top of NBA in turnovers, I never realized he turned over the ball so much lol. Plus we have Lin who was known to turn over the ball a lot last year
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Yeah me too. I knew he was turning it over a lot more but I didn't think he was leading. I'll just attribute it to him still adjusting to his role as the #1 option.

On the bright side Lin has toned down on the turnovers. My only issue with him in regards to that is that once he turns the ball over he tends to get flustered, which leads to more sloppy play.

Lol growing pains of watching a young developing team. They'll get better, and I'm still interested in seeing how they work out their chemistry issues down the stretch.

#1362 yunac010, Dec 14, 2012
TheRookets Rookie

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THE ****ING ROCKETS BEAT THE CELDICKS AND ALL WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ARE LOF AND LOH AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. DON'T YOU LOSERS GET TIRED?

Happy the Rockets won! SMH.

#1363 TheRookets, Dec 14, 2012
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mike_lu said: ↑

The issue with Lin on this board is sad.

Yes, there are Lin only fans that really need to tone it down, but there are also so many posters here in general just hating on Lin but hiding it behind the 'we're Rockets team supporters' line. And we don't even need to pretend it doesn't exist.

We pretty much all think the coaching stuff has so far not done a good job, but if it's playing Harden to death, not putting Asik back in the game for rebounding/defense with the game on the line and Rockets leading, playing Delfino when he isn't hitting the shots, or not playing rookies much, it's okay to bash the coaches. But if it is benching Lin or not allowing Lin to play PG, people automatically become Lin only fans. And they need to GTFO.

And let's talk about Toney Douglas. Do you guys realize he's shooting 37% on FGs this year, vs Lin around 40%? And Douglas has consistently shot a worse FG% than Lin throughout the year? As Douglas has shot better, Lin has also in the same stretch? And Douglas is most obviously a worse defender than Lin by both the eye-test, synergy stats, and in terms of the opposing PG/player having scored much more on him than Lin (Rondo, Mayo, Lillard, you name it).

Douglas entered the 4Q with similar meh FGM/FGA vs Lin, but Lin was having a much better game facilitating, rebounding and playing defense, and at best Douglas is really just a shorter version of Luther Head as an undersized SG who can easily be out of the league when his current contract is over, why shouldn't both fans of Lin and the Houston Rockets expect the coaches to play Lin at least a decent amount of time in the 4Q, from perspectives of development, and based on their actual in game performance? I don't see that as against the Rockets team best interests, especially as they in invested a significant contract and part of salary cap hoping Lin can continue to develop on his season with the Knicks.

Yes we all know Lin and Harden haven't meshed well, but it took lebron/wade 1.5 seasons and durante/Westbrook/harden even longer (the first year all 3 were together OKC wasn't even close to .500). The only way we'll ever find out if Lin/Harden can co-exist, is to go through some growing pains. Better now than later. Especially when Lin showed that his performances last year weren't a total fluke in the Spurs game.

It's also a joke here that people who have joined after Jul 2012 can't be displeased about Harden iso-ball or Toney Douglas, but those before can. Just like they can't be displeased about the coaching staff's use of Lin, but others can about Jones or DMo or Smith, who have proven far less than Lin.

I find it a joke that some poster can join for a couple of days and decide there's only two types of posters here. Lin fans and Rockets team fans. That is way off the mark. They are just as many Rockets fans who would prefer Lin to do poorly to match their eye-test, even if it's not in the Rockets best interest, as well as those obvious Lin-only-haters who hide behind the "we're fans of Houston Rockets only" line.

The other joke here is that fans of Lin can't want Jeremy Lin to be traded, but fans of the Rockets first actually wouldn't mind (or prefer) Lin to be traded.

If you really are a fan of the Houston Rockets, you Better realize the coaching staff has every reason to continue to play Lin, and based on the crap shooting, defense, playmaking (and replaceability) of Toney Douglas, not many to play him let alone over Lin and in crucial minutes. Don't tell me you can't find an undersized (or not) SG with meh defense and no playmaking skills that can shoot more than 37% on FG.

And enough with the "but he hit two crucial shots" in the 4Q crap. That's hindsight. And Douglas played a stinker up to that point.
Click to expand...

Most rational response on this board.

#1364 linbandwagon, Dec 14, 2012
logggur Member

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So... How bout that halftime show?

#1365 logggur, Dec 14, 2012
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This self-appointed ClutchFans Historian stuff is incredibly dull.

I want to talk about the game in the game thread. Aren't people happy about the game?

#1366 BeeBeard, Dec 14, 2012
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torocan said: ↑

It depends on whether the coaches are smart enough to make it work.

If the coaches aren't, then there's only a few possible outcomes.

1) Move Lin to 2nd unit.
2) Alternate possessions.
3) Trade Lin for a better shooting guard and dump Douglas. Possibly keep Delfino on the bench.
4) Fire McHale and replace him with a strong X's and O's coach who can find a way to make it work.

And for those who think Lowry is going to work, Lowry is worthless if you turn him into a pure shooting guard. Lowry's strength is PnR drives to the rim. He needs the ball as much as Lin.

Dragic would be a better fit than Lowry, but still not ideal.

You'd really want a shooting guard and a semi-competent back up point guard who can relieve Harden's minutes, but also be a perimeter shooter. Chris Duhon and Ramon Sessions
for example come to mind.
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Wow, I seriously hope you can coach for rockets.

#1367 peter2012, Dec 14, 2012

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peter2012 said: ↑

If you watched the game, you would know how he got his points.
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Wow I can't even make a simple comment about the game without it turning to a Lin response. Lin only assisted to 3 of smiths field goals and none of Parsons shots. Also lIn didn't help smith get 6 rebounds and block 3 shots and parson get his 9 rebounds and 8 assists.

#1368 Rockets12, Dec 14, 2012
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Do you think they're trying to move Douglas... and trying to up his stats?

#1369 cytrynowa, Dec 14, 2012
Rockets12 Member

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TheRookets said: ↑

THE ****ING ROCKETS BEAT THE CELDICKS AND ALL WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ARE LOF AND LOH AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. DON'T YOU LOSERS GET TIRED?

Happy the Rockets won! SMH.
Click to expand...

Thanks you, I tried complimenting parson and smith on their game and I got replied with another LOF comment. It's ridiculous lol

#1370 Rockets12, Dec 14, 2012
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yunac010 said: ↑

Yeah me too. I knew he was turning it over a lot more but I didn't think he was leading. I'll just attribute it to him still adjusting to his role as the #1 option.

On the bright side Lin has toned down on the turnovers. My only issue with him in regards to that is that once he turns the ball over he tends to get flustered, which leads to more sloppy play.

Lol growing pains of watching a young developing team. They'll get better, and I'm still interested in seeing how they work out their chemistry issues down the stretch.
Click to expand...

the thing is i don't know if he really got better at ball handing this year or just it's the result of his relatively passive style of basket ball.

#1371 instar, Dec 14, 2012
Alex L. Contributing Member

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mike_lu said: ↑

The issue with Lin on this board is sad.

Yes, there are Lin only fans that really need to tone it down, but there are also so many posters here in general just hating on Lin but hiding it behind the 'we're Rockets team supporters' line. And we don't even need to pretend it doesn't exist.

We pretty much all think the coaching stuff has so far not done a good job, but if it's playing Harden to death, not putting Asik back in the game for rebounding/defense with the game on the line and Rockets leading, playing Delfino when he isn't hitting the shots, or not playing rookies much, it's okay to bash the coaches. But if it is benching Lin or not allowing Lin to play PG, people automatically become Lin only fans. And they need to GTFO.

And let's talk about Toney Douglas. Do you guys realize he's shooting 37% on FGs this year, vs Lin around 40%? And Douglas has consistently shot a worse FG% than Lin throughout the year? As Douglas has shot better, Lin has also in the same stretch? And Douglas is most obviously a worse defender than Lin by both the eye-test, synergy stats, and in terms of the opposing PG/player having scored much more on him than Lin (Rondo, Mayo, Lillard, you name it).

Douglas entered the 4Q with similar meh FGM/FGA vs Lin, but Lin was having a much better game facilitating, rebounding and playing defense, and at best Douglas is really just a shorter version of Luther Head as an undersized SG who can easily be out of the league when his current contract is over, why shouldn't both fans of Lin and the Houston Rockets expect the coaches to play Lin at least a decent amount of time in the 4Q, from perspectives of development, and based on their actual in game performance? I don't see that as against the Rockets team best interests, especially as they in invested a significant contract and part of salary cap hoping Lin can continue to develop on his season with the Knicks.

Yes we all know Lin and Harden haven't meshed well, but it took lebron/wade 1.5 seasons and durante/Westbrook/harden even longer (the first year all 3 were together OKC wasn't even close to .500). The only way we'll ever find out if Lin/Harden can co-exist, is to go through some growing pains. Better now than later. Especially when Lin showed that his performances last year weren't a total fluke in the Spurs game.

It's also a joke here that people who have joined after Jul 2012 can't be displeased about Harden iso-ball or Toney Douglas, but those before can. Just like they can't be displeased about the coaching staff's use of Lin, but others can about Jones or DMo or Smith, who have proven far less than Lin.

I find it a joke that some poster can join for a couple of days and decide there's only two types of posters here. Lin fans and Rockets team fans. That is way off the mark. They are just as many Rockets fans who would prefer Lin to do poorly to match their eye-test, even if it's not in the Rockets best interest, as well as those obvious Lin-only-haters who hide behind the "we're fans of Houston Rockets only" line.

The other joke here is that fans of Lin can't want Jeremy Lin to be traded, but fans of the Rockets first actually wouldn't mind (or prefer) Lin to be traded.

If you really are a fan of the Houston Rockets, you Better realize the coaching staff has every reason to continue to play Lin, and based on the crap shooting, defense, playmaking (and replaceability) of Toney Douglas, not many to play him let alone over Lin and in crucial minutes. Don't tell me you can't find an undersized (or not) SG with meh defense and no playmaking skills that can shoot more than 37% on FG.

And enough with the "but he hit two crucial shots" in the 4Q crap. That's hindsight. And Douglas played a stinker up to that point.
Click to expand...

A sensible vet! Repped.

#1372 Alex L., Dec 14, 2012
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MOFvsLOF said: ↑

You're trolling, but that makes sense.
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Doubt that. Harden doesn't need any help getting his points, he has the green light to hoist from anywhere and any way. The other players however need a point guard and assists to get their game going.

#1373 wokdwok, Dec 14, 2012

roxxy Member

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forsythtroy said: ↑

Honestly...yeah.

I don't dislike you as a poster. You and torocan obviously have your agendas but are level headed and provide substance to the GARM. It's a better place with you in it.

That's not to say that I agree with you very often when it comes to #7. But whatever. I don't think he's quite "there" yet. I'm not sure his first few games will ever even be approached with any regularity again. But, I hope that he blows those games out of the water. The difference between me, some of the more seasoned posters and this new batch is that I'm not so sure that they would be as pleased if Douglas or even Machado blew up. I don't care as long as we win.

Keep posting.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind words. And you are more than welcome to disagree with me on Lin. I love responses to my posts to be frank particularly from those who disagree. I don't presume to know everything about the NBA & lord knows I have picked up a lot of stuff on this board. I also don't presume to know everything about the Rockets either.

I joined here to talk a multiplicity of things, basketball, the Rockets, Lin, Harden Omer etc. And don't get me wrong I sympathize with the posters who have been here through the worst & have to deal with the overly passionate groups of fans. My entire point is don't lump me in with the nuttys.

This was a great conversation. Have a nice night.

BeeBeard said: ↑

Comment 2: Greg Smith has great hands. Somebody posted some draft combine numbers on Smith that showed that he had basically the biggest hand span of anybody ever, and it really shows. You throw that man the ball and he catches it, in his catcher's mitt like paws. And then he dunks it. And if you foul him, he makes his free throws. It's a really nice change of pace from the stone-handed rebounding machine that is Asik.

I want to see more of Greg Smith. I think it wins basketball games.
Click to expand...

Greg Smith is amazing. I love that kid like it is approaching Omer Asik levels of adoration. I never want to see Cole again.

#1374 roxxy, Dec 14, 2012
ivanyy2000 Member

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I just ignore those guys.

I always chuckle when ppl claim they are "true" rocket fans. The truth is they are only conformtable living in their small world and can't stand new ppl coming in and take conversation away from them.

It happened in Yao's days and it happens again for Lin.

I have no idea either on why Lin was benched from late 3rd QT. I was watching the game and seemed to me he was playing well.

Douglas wasn't exactly shutting anyone down or setting everyone up for good shots. he didn't score much unitl very late of the 4th QT when Rox already had the game in hand.

mike_lu said: ↑

The issue with Lin on this board is sad.

Yes, there are Lin only fans that really need to tone it down, but there are also so many posters here in general just hating on Lin but hiding it behind the 'we're Rockets team supporters' line. And we don't even need to pretend it doesn't exist.

We pretty much all think the coaching stuff has so far not done a good job, but if it's playing Harden to death, not putting Asik back in the game for rebounding/defense with the game on the line and Rockets leading, playing Delfino when he isn't hitting the shots, or not playing rookies much, it's okay to bash the coaches. But if it is benching Lin or not allowing Lin to play PG, people automatically become Lin only fans. And they need to GTFO.

And let's talk about Toney Douglas. Do you guys realize he's shooting 37% on FGs this year, vs Lin around 40%? And Douglas has consistently shot a worse FG% than Lin throughout the year? As Douglas has shot better, Lin has also in the same stretch? And Douglas is most obviously a worse defender than Lin by both the eye-test, synergy stats, and in terms of the opposing PG/player having scored much more on him than Lin (Rondo, Mayo, Lillard, you name it).

Douglas entered the 4Q with similar meh FGM/FGA vs Lin, but Lin was having a much better game facilitating, rebounding and playing defense, and at best Douglas is really just a shorter version of Luther Head as an undersized SG who can easily be out of the league when his current contract is over, why shouldn't both fans of Lin and the Houston Rockets expect the coaches to play Lin at least a decent amount of time in the 4Q, from perspectives of development, and based on their actual in game performance? I don't see that as against the Rockets team best interests, especially as they in invested a significant contract and part of salary cap hoping Lin can continue to develop on his season with the Knicks.

Yes we all know Lin and Harden haven't meshed well, but it took lebron/wade 1.5 seasons and durante/Westbrook/harden even longer (the first year all 3 were together OKC wasn't even close to .500). The only way we'll ever find out if Lin/Harden can co-exist, is to go through some growing pains. Better now than later. Especially when Lin showed that his performances last year weren't a total fluke in the Spurs game.

It's also a joke here that people who have joined after Jul 2012 can't be displeased about Harden iso-ball or Toney Douglas, but those before can. Just like they can't be displeased about the coaching staff's use of Lin, but others can about Jones or DMo or Smith, who have proven far less than Lin.

I find it a joke that some poster can join for a couple of days and decide there's only two types of posters here. Lin fans and Rockets team fans. That is way off the mark. They are just as many Rockets fans who would prefer Lin to do poorly to match their eye-test, even if it's not in the Rockets best interest, as well as those obvious Lin-only-haters who hide behind the "we're fans of Houston Rockets only" line.

The other joke here is that fans of Lin can't want Jeremy Lin to be traded, but fans of the Rockets first actually wouldn't mind (or prefer) Lin to be traded.

If you really are a fan of the Houston Rockets, you Better realize the coaching staff has every reason to continue to play Lin, and based on the crap shooting, defense and playmaking of Toney Douglas, not many to play him let alone over Lin and in crucial minutes.

And enough with the "but he hit two crucial shots" in the 4Q crap. That's hindsight. And Douglas played a stinker up to that point.
Click to expand...

#1375 ivanyy2000, Dec 14, 2012
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roxxy said: ↑

Greg Smith is amazing. I love that kid like it is approaching Omer Asik levels of adoration. I never want to see Cole again.
Click to expand...

I agree

#1376 Rockets12, Dec 14, 2012
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sidestep said: ↑

No 2012 poster can say this, though much of it is obvious, without getting shouted down. That's the state of this board.
Click to expand...

Exactly - it's sad. Fresh blood is a good thing and opens the forum to new ideas. I watched Lin all last year on MSG and realized he was not a fluke. I've been supportive of him all year even though he has looked nothing like last year. The San Antonio game proved that he wasn't a fluke but my input has been trashed and ignored all season because of when I joined.

#1377 pistol111847, Dec 14, 2012
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cytrynowa said: ↑

Do you think they're trying to move Douglas... and trying to up his stats?
Click to expand...

LOL! Surely you jest.

#1378 wokdwok, Dec 14, 2012

CCM721 Member

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ivanyy2000 said: ↑

I just ignore those guys.

I always chuckle when ppl claim they are "true" rocket fans. The truth is they are only conformtable living in their small world and can't stand new ppl coming in and take conversation away from them.

It happened in Yao's days and it happens again for Lin.

I have no idea either on why Lin was benched from late 3rd QT. I was watching the game and seemed to me he was playing well.

Douglas wasn't exactly shutting anyone down or setting everyone up for good shots. he didn't score much unitl very late of the 4th QT when Rox already had the game in hand.
Click to expand...

Douglas's 3 off the Parson's steal was really the dagger, and the game wasn't out of hand yet. I believe we were only up 8 when he hit it.

#1379 CCM721, Dec 14, 2012
real_egal Member

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mike_lu said: ↑

The issue with Lin on this board is sad.

Yes, there are Lin only fans that really need to tone it down, but there are also so many posters here in general just hating on Lin but hiding it behind the 'we're Rockets team supporters' line. And we don't even need to pretend it doesn't exist.

We pretty much all think the coaching stuff has so far not done a good job, but if it's playing Harden to death, not putting Asik back in the game for rebounding/defense with the game on the line and Rockets leading, playing Delfino when he isn't hitting the shots, or not playing rookies much, it's okay to bash the coaches. But if it is benching Lin or not allowing Lin to play PG, people automatically become Lin only fans. And they need to GTFO.

And let's talk about Toney Douglas. Do you guys realize he's shooting 37% on FGs this year, vs Lin around 40%? And Douglas has consistently shot a worse FG% than Lin throughout the year? As Douglas has shot better, Lin has also in the same stretch? And Douglas is most obviously a worse defender than Lin by both the eye-test, synergy stats, and in terms of the opposing PG/player having scored much more on him than Lin (Rondo, Mayo, Lillard, you name it).

Douglas entered the 4Q with similar meh FGM/FGA vs Lin, but Lin was having a much better game facilitating, rebounding and playing defense, and at best Douglas is really just a shorter version of Luther Head as an undersized SG who can easily be out of the league when his current contract is over, why shouldn't both fans of Lin and the Houston Rockets expect the coaches to play Lin at least a decent amount of time in the 4Q, from perspectives of development, and based on their actual in game performance? I don't see that as against the Rockets team best interests, especially as they in invested a significant contract and part of salary cap hoping Lin can continue to develop on his season with the Knicks.

Yes we all know Lin and Harden haven't meshed well, but it took lebron/wade 1.5 seasons and durante/Westbrook/harden even longer (the first year all 3 were together OKC wasn't even close to .500). The only way we'll ever find out if Lin/Harden can co-exist, is to go through some growing pains. Better now than later. Especially when Lin showed that his performances last year weren't a total fluke in the Spurs game.

It's also a joke here that people who have joined after Jul 2012 can't be displeased about Harden iso-ball or Toney Douglas, but those before can. Just like they can't be displeased about the coaching staff's use of Lin, but others can about Jones or DMo or Smith, who have proven far less than Lin.

I find it a joke that some poster can join for a couple of days and decide there's only two types of posters here. Lin fans and Rockets team fans. That is way off the mark. They are just as many Rockets fans who would prefer Lin to do poorly to match their eye-test, even if it's not in the Rockets best interest, as well as those obvious Lin-only-haters who hide behind the "we're fans of Houston Rockets only" line.

The other joke here is that fans of Lin can't want Jeremy Lin to be traded, but fans of the Rockets first actually wouldn't mind (or prefer) Lin to be traded.

If you really are a fan of the Houston Rockets, you Better realize the coaching staff has every reason to continue to play Lin, and based on the crap shooting, defense, playmaking (and replaceability) of Toney Douglas, not many to play him let alone over Lin and in crucial minutes. Don't tell me you can't find an undersized (or not) SG with meh defense and no playmaking skills that can shoot more than 37% on FG.

And enough with the "but he hit two crucial shots" in the 4Q crap. That's hindsight. And Douglas played a stinker up to that point.
Click to expand...

Well said.

I stopped writing long posts quite some time ago, as I figured that I've never changed others' opinions at online forum, so why bother?

Lin's short resume and sudden success during Linsanity brought out passionate supporters and doubters, as well as supporters among non-basketball fans. Given the fact that Rocket just lost both Lowry and Dragic, and went out to give Lin a pretty big offer and then increased to a maximum offer they could offer Lin, of course there are fans don't like the signing.

You never need reason to like or dislike anyone, for it's your personal feelings. You don't have to "justify" it using all kinds of excuses. That being said, the most pathetic excuse I ever saw was "because some Lin fans are so annoying, they just turned me against Lin." Yeah right, as if someone really likes your girl friend (she can't do anything about it), because you don't like that guy, you will decide to break up with your girl friend, although you really "loved" her before. What a silly joke! I'd rather those people say I don't like Lin because he has a "punchable" face like Terry. At least, they would have been honest.

#1380 real_egal, Dec 14, 2012

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