You gave both lin and harden one advantage each, so why do u consider lin more athletic? Based on your criteria Harden wins body control, vertical, strength and Lin wins speed and quickness. Harden takes it 3-2.
Through the survey, it's very obvious that none of the starters' athletic values are super impressive. Would that be one of the reasons that we are not doing well in defense?
Nah, Defense has nothing to do with athletic values... it has a lot to do with experience, practice, situational awareness, scouting and effort...
The "lane agility" test actually has quite a few flaws as a meaningful measure of on-court agility. Lateral quickness is only part of it. The most common criticism is that backpedaling acceleration/deceleration is such a big part of it but its on-court impact is limited. Rose's poor lane agility score no doubt has a lot to do with his awkward backpedal, while Douglas is a very good backpedaler. A lot of the time you see Douglas not even bother to turn around to run back on defense. Also, accelerating and decelerating across the width of the lane laterally isn't as important as accelerating and decelerating over a single step or two laterally, as longer distances generally convert into a forward run. In terms of lane agility, guards are generally expected to score under 11.0, so Harden's 11.1 is below average and Rose's 11.69 is way below average for guards. In fact, at 11.69 Rose is generally considered below average even for forwards. One interesting side note here is that the only two bigs known to score under 10.0 in lane agility were both in Rockets training camp this year: Josh Harrellson at 9.2 and Greg Smith at 8.33.
Shocked at the ratings for Harrellson and Smith. Josh looked slow as heck in NY, though he seemed to be a good position defender. Nice to see the numbers for Smith, my pick as the most athletic Rocket.
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Analyzing-the-NBA-Combine-Results-3244/ Somehow this rumor got started he's not very athletic and relies on his "herky-jerky" style of play. It's false. Personally, I'd rank it as: 1. Terrence Jones 2. Greg Smith 3. Chandler Parsons 4. James Harden 5. Jeremy Lin Then a large gap.
Y'all have to remember to take combine results with a grain of salt. You've got guys trying the hardest they ever have in hopes of getting drafted a little higher, while others guys are trying not to pull something, which could drop their stock. It's nice to have those numbers, but ultimately you've got to see what they do on the court from game to game. All the athleticism in the world doesn't mean much if it's not put to use consistently and with good effort.
That's a good point. The only solid piece of data we have for in-game situation measurements are the accelerometers on the practice jerseys. And those show that Jeremy Lin's acceleration is the fastest ever recorded by the organization, which means not only faster than anyone on this team, but anyone on last year's team as well. These are actual in-game measurements, so not reliant on combine scores, although they do dovetail with the combine scores showing that Lin's first step is quicker than John Wall, D.Rose, and Kyrie Irving. Basically, once he's past you, especially with the help of a pick, he's gone. You need team defense to cut him off. And this speed not only helps on the offense, but on defense as well. Last year, D.Rose got past Jeremy Lin and though he had enough of a head start that he could just go up for the dunk. But Lin was fast enough to not only catch up but cleanly block the dunk and slap it out of D.Rose's hands from behind. Morey mentioned that Jeremy has recovered all of his pre-surgery acceleration, but not all of his pre-surgery deceleration yet, although it's slowly coming back more and more with time. Once the deceleration is back to anywhere near last year, he should be able to pair his explosiveness from his quick first step with the stop-and-go/pop, quick cuts and change of speeds that come from combining quick acceleration with quick deceleration stopping on a dime. So while he's healthy and healed from his surgery, he's not fully back to his pre-surgery game shape conditioning yet according to Morey's instruments. It'll come with time as the knee strengthens more, assuming he doesn't overdo it and re-injure himself. Decelerating and stopping on a dime (like slamming on the brakes in a car) puts tremendous force on a knee, especially one that's recovering from surgery and slowly building it's strength and conditioning back up. So according to the in-game accelerometers during practice, and not the artificial combine scores, Jeremy has a more explosive first step than Harden, Lowry, Dragic, or Douglas, or anyone ever measured by the Rockets.
Great thread, guys. Really enjoyed it. After readng all the tread up till a few hrs ago I voted for Harden. Jones would have been second. I voted for Harden due to his hands. Maybe Jones has great hands, but I haven't seen enough to judge wrt to Harden. I would vote for Jones if I thought his hands were rougly as good as Harden's. Not enough emphasis is put on how good your hands are when discussing "athleticism"
What's his vert? I seem to remember him getting up pretty high with dunks but he just doesn't do it very often.
I think there is too much being read into the accelerometer results. Lin accelerates quickly and more quickly than the rest. That's about the extent of it. It doesn't necessarily mean he has a more explosive first step, or more effective one. It does help him though. Also, it doesn't mean he's faster. Olympic sprinters with good speed aren't always the fastest out of the blocks. The ones with good starts aren't always the fastest either. I'd say Courtney Lee is faster than Lin. Also, Remember Twill consistently beat everyone in their conditioning drills last season. Over the course of 94 feet and 30+ minutes of running, you've got to take speed and cardio endurance into consideration as well. What do you mean, how well they catch or react with them? I would put that under overall reaction and coordination.
Harden by a mile compared to Lin.... I am a Lin fan but his lack of hops and strength hurts him a lot. Harden has everything and has showcased it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01LxIF3kjTE As for Jones (Not seen enough of him, Parsons above average but not special and not strong enough or quick enough, PPat whats the point if he's suppose to be athletic but doesn't use it, doesn't look great to me, not that fast or strong...
I supppose, but a person could have overall good coordination and reaction, but not "good hands". Hence many big time athletes could be tight ends or wide receivers, but don't have "good hands".
