There are some numbers comparisons from BAM-measured athletes including Lin, Wall, Irving, and Rose: http://thebamboxscore.com/ Scroll down to near the bottom for the NBA PG comparisons. Remember that the percentiles are across all atletic fields that BAM measures, not just basketball. Also of interest, note the low(er) agility high power of Derrick Rose.
Well, cross-referencing the two (I know, not perfect)... Lane Agility John Wall - 10.84s Toney Douglas - 10.63s Jeremy Lin - Unavailable ...with the BAM Agility scores... John Wall - 90th percentile Jeremy Lin - 85th percentile At least PRIOR to the lockout season, Lin *probably* had lower lateral agility than Toney Douglas. However, given Lin improved his lateral quickness by 32% in the lockout season, it's impossible to say where he measures up right now. I wouldn't be surprised if Toney Douglas was still better, but no way of knowing for sure without actual data.
Yeah, man, that Usain Bolt guy is a freak. He has a faster first-step than all the NBA PGs there except Lin and blows everybody out of the water on top and average speed.
TJ- because he is strength, speed and explosiveness all in one. *Harden- strength, above average hops and a decent first step Lin- dudes got everything athletically that a 'star potential' pg should have in this league due to the fact that he has the agility, strength and speed, just not the most astounding hops
Yes, we need categories, but those aren't it. 1. Power 2. Strength 3. Coordination 4. Stability 5. Balance 6. Agility 7. Speed 8. Mobility 9. Reaction 10. Endurance 11. Flexibility The mistake being made is assuming athleticism is entirely composed of different types of strength and power, while those two aren't even half in reality. The typical centers usually are out b/c at their size they don't have great balance, reaction, agility, endurance, mobility etc...most of the categories. I think most PFs could be better athletically, but end up focusing too much on being strong and compromise the finesse categories that centers also lack. -We dont have anything special at those spots, which leaves us the 1/2/3 spots. Cook, Delfino, Harden, Lin, Machado, Parsons, Mook, Douglas. -Right away you can knock out Cook, who's clearly not a very good athlete, and Delfino b/c of age. Harden, Lin, Machado, Parsons, Mook, Douglas. -Out of these guys the odd man out is Mook, who just doesn't move as smoothly as the others. He's not exceptionally strong or quick to make up for it. Harden, Lin, Machado, Parsons, Douglas. -Douglas it out because he's not great in any category and isn't the best all around either. Harden, Lin, Machado, Parsons -It gets tough here. Harden seems like he's athletic, but ask yourself this. If thats all he lacks, why does he have to eurostep so much? Why use deception so much? Yes it can work, but it doesn't work well enough to rely on it so much. Even Manu doesn't. I'm not convinced he's very good at the finesse categories. Movements seem a little too stiff. I haven't seen enough of Machado to really evaluate him. Could be similar to Harden. Lin has acceleration, but nothing else stands out. He doesnt have the mass to use that acceleration as power against others, like Harden could do. I'd have to give it to Parsons because he's solid in just about every category. He's not extremely explosive or strong, but seems to have more than enough to get up to finish, rebound, and get by to drive. Clearly he's not just using his height to do those things. Also, he's very fluid for his height. He's out there doing reverse/up and under layups like he's 6'5-ish. Most importantly, he's shown the ability to improve his athleticism over the summer, which tells me he's able to tap into different components to fine tune them. A lot of guys can't, as if that component was just shut off or unavailable. I know fans will favor Jones, but he's all power and strength. It's impressive, but again, not even half of what athleticism involves. His shot is awkward, as is his handle. He carries a ton. I'm not sure if that's just from lack of practice or his body's inability to pull off more fluid movements, but i'm assuming the latter. If it's the former, then he'd clearly jump to top 3, at least. Same goes for Patrick. He's got some tools to work with. Unfortunately he's so inconsistent with his play that I cant tell if his athletic plays are due to him being that athletic or just trying REALLY hard at the moment. True athleticism is consistent. Even Kelvin Cato and Mo Taylor had their moments.
Most popular basketball moves are all about deception. Pump fakes, crossovers, fake passes, eurostep etc. Dwyane Wade is a heavy user of the eurostep, and most would agree Wade was exceptionally athletic in his prime. I guess this is a good part about Harden's game. His minimal reliance in athleticism to succeed means injuries and age would not bring him down as fast as most other players.
Greg Smith, Jones or Lin I'd say. Harden reminds me of an old man with a hunch back problem and often times he draaaags lifting his arms on his shot to the basket. Don't know if that's on purpose, but it looks weird. I always feel like someone needs to pop his back.
Royce White. Not very popular among these boards, but the guy is a beast. Built like Lebron James. If not him, than Terrance Jones, Omer Asik, and Greg Smith all come to mind. Harden may not be extremely athletic, but is pretty explosive.
My ranking: Positional "needs" compared to positional "average". Some are raw athleticism, some are mainly athleticism with required skill: 1. Harden +hops with the ball, +speed with the ball (handles), +strength, +body control, +hands coordination (handles), +hands coordination (deflections) 2. Jones +hops, +speed with the ball, +body control, +strength? +mobility 3. Smith +hops, +hands (coordination), +strength, +mobility 4. Parsons +speed with the ball (handles), +lateral quickness, +hands coordination (handles) 5. Lin +speed with the ball (handles), + hands coordination (deflections), +lateral quickness? 6. Patterson +mobility, +strength
What i was saying is, he keeps going to it when it's not working, like earlier this season. He wasn't getting calls and the defense was picking it up. Dwade would have said enough is enough and just exploded to the rim and tried to dunk on someone. Or he'd pull a great athletic finish, so he wouldn't have to depend on the refs and also avoid the defense. It seems like Harden doesn't have that in his back pocket to go to when he struggles. Eventually, he would skip the euro step and just drive hard, but he still wasn't showing any extra athleticism. So, if he does have it, why isn't he going to it when needed? Is he that stubborn or does he just not have that extra level to go to, athletically?
You can make arguments for Harden, TJ, White, or Smith. I have mine in this order. Yes, Royce White, the mobile 6'8 270 lb man that can still jump and move laterally. Insane movements and burst for somebody his size.
If u think harden and patterson are very athletic,then you must don't know what very athletic is. In terms of size,speed,weight,lateral explosion it has to be terrance jones. After him, I would go wth parsons. In terms of athletic players, harden is more on young manu's level versus say wades level. Asik is an average athlete and patterson,morris,lin are solid athlets for their position.
I would say Lin is probably more athletic than Harden. Lin is faster and quicker than he is but Harden jumps higher therefor he gets the benefit of the doubt. Usually when people talk about the best athletes in the NBA, they usually just refer to the best leapers and that is an incorrect way to evaluate athleticism. Athleticism is about everything, speed, quickness, vertical, strength, body control, etc. I vote for Patterson or Jones.
