[ClutchFans] Jeremy Lin after playing just 18 minutes vs. Mavericks

I said "usually" plays against the bench. You're right he played against starters in those 3 games in crunch time. But guess what WE LOST 2 out of 3 for a .333 win pct. Would you be happy with that for a season win/loss pct??

 

I understand that. Stats can only tell you so much. Again, NOT saying Douglas is better than Lin (NO WAY!). But the notion that Douglas got better +/- from playing against bench was not 100% accurate either. In many games he played against opposing starters (Portland, Lakers, Mavs).

 

When Lin got taken out after the first 6 minutes of the game against Dallas he was the only Rocket playing well.

Does that sound more like a coaching problem or a player performance problem?

 

Asik bobbled passes from Lin, so the coaches threw out the baby with the bathwater. I'm hoping it was an innocent mistake.

 

I agree with you Douglas is bad, I would rather him not playing no matter how badly Lin is sucking.

But the answer to your last question is yes, I would be happy if we only a third of our games this season because of picks.

 

Look, I'm NOT saying 1) I agree with the coach's decision, or 2) Douglas is better than Lin, or 3) Lin deserves to be benched.

I don't like it any more than you do, but that's where we stand right now. Until Lin start hitting his shot consistent enough to draw the defender out, he's not going to be effective (esp. without an effective PnR big). Season's still long and I'm confident things will change for the better for Lin, but I don't want to be a fan who refuses to see the stats or situation for what it is.

Worth noting that I'm a HUGE fan of Lin, but I give credit where credits due. The outcome of the Portland/Mavs games were definitely debatable whether Lin played or not, but there was no denying that the bench (and esp. TD) won us the Laker's game.

 

Your posts in this thread about Lin have generally been on the money and fair. One correction though, I do think that some of the +/- devalue Lin's contributions. Some of the other stats show that Lin has contributed at a significantly higher rate than TD, and there are some other players with whom Lin plays that drag down his +/- (where TD does not play with them).

 

Hey I'm not trying to put anybody down at all. However if you listen to the coaches post game interviews where they didn't play Lin in crunch time it's always because they think TD is a better defender. They never say anything about shooting and spacing the floor. I think they really believe that TD is a better defender. I disagree with them.

 

I don't know how to paste Twitter feeds here (sorry) but if you go view Jason Friedman's (@JasonCFriedman) tweets from yesterday, he explained that to a fan. Lin+Harden as a combo is struggling offensively. Lin was benched not because he played poorly, but because they need Harden to score to play catch up. (That's why I keep saying things will change when Lin finds his shots.)

 

TD IS a better defender. In fact, TD is one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA. It's the primary reason we traded for him and the primary reason why he is our crunch time PG. I'm not saying Lin is a bad defender, but he's not as good of a defender as Tony Douglas.

 

What do you expect them to say? "Our $100M backcourt isn't playing well together because Lin can't shoot well yet?"

At first I thought it was TD's defense too (and I agree with you that TD is NOT a better defender), but I actually re-watched the game. TD wasn't guarding Mayo a bulk of the time, so I didn't buy the TD-on-Mayo excuse at all.

Again, newbie here so I don't know how to post screenshot either, but if you have the game on DVR or League Pass, re-watch and look at the spacing in the paint in the 3Q and 4Q. Huge difference. Huge. TD's defense stays on him out in the 3pt line, but Lin's defender mostly stayed in the paint.

 

If Asik didn't drop 2-3 passes for easy layups, Parsons and Patterson bricking shots, Kaman and Mayo scoring at will because of poor defense the Rockets may have been ahead at the time.

It isn't all about Harden it's about the team.

 

Interesting. I'll have to go rewatch, too bad I deleted the darn game. If Lin was left open, since Lin hit his first two 3-pointers, the coaches should have just told Lin to keep shooting (and for his teammates to look for him).

 

Can't say I agree. TD is definitely more aggressive and pesters his man, but that doesn't make him a better defender. Contrary to eye test, Lilliard and Mayo both outscored Douglas than they did Lin.

Between the two Lin is the smarter defender and often lures his man to the weakside or into Asik. Of course, I'm not saying Lin's a good defender either. His tendency to help often leaves too much space between him and his man (and drives me absolutely crazy). For quicker guards like Parker or Westbrook, that extra space is all they need to do their damage.

 

I agree. One can even argue that we might have lost the game because Harden was exhausted towards the end thanks to the coaching playing him 45min. I don't like the coach's decision either, but believe that the rumor about coaches hating Lin is unfounded.

When Lin becomes an offensive threat again, things definitely will change. I like Douglas as a person (such a nice guy!) but there's no way he's starting PG caliber.

 

If you wouldn't mind showing a newbie how to upload a picture, I'd be happy to post screenshots here. :grin: (When I click on the "picture" icon, it's prompting me for an URL. Do I have to upload the picture to a website first?)

 

i think i may have read the worst LOF statement

 

I don't know either, but I trust you, as you seem to be a reasonable poster. I do agree that Lin does not look for his shot enough, especially the outside shot, but what I don't know if that is just his intention to get his teammates involved as a PG or if it is the coaches' instruction (or some combination).

I also agree that Lin is a better defender than TD, but I can understand Aruba's comment that TD appears to be a better defender. All the defensive stats say the opposite, not to mention Lin's rebounding, charges drawn, and other factors that benefit the team much more on defense than TD. Unlike you, though I would go further, and I will maintain that Lin is a top tier defender (at least top 10% at his position). This position has drawn criticism, but my continued analysis and viewing have not dissuaded me from this position. The fact that Lin gives too much space at times tells me that those are coach's orders (perhaps to give the other player a shot or two to see if they are hot first or to help when his teammates are out of position). If they aren't coaches orders, then I think that this should be easily correctible given Lin's willingness to listen to coaching and work ethic.

 

So Lin facilitating well but his teammates were not making their shots, defense was leaky, and the team was down 11 points. What do you do? Maybe give the ball to your most proven consistent scorer in Harden and try to make it easier on him by spreading the floor with your best 3 point shooters from the bench?

Don't get me wrong here, I don't think McHale should of benched Asik and Lin for the whole 4th quarter but I can understand why he went to the bench at that time.

 

It is about the team. Harden is best player on team. Rockets are trying to build a team around him. What I believe the Rockets want around Harden offensively based on what I've heard them say and what I see on court:
1) Center that can set picks and roll to basket or three point line. They want a center that can finish when passed to or make a second pass to either player cutting to rim or in the corner.
2) PF that can space the floor and finish on cuts around rim. They would also like someone with a post game, but skills as off the ball player are more a premium. In small ball lineup, this man would slide to the 5 and set picks as well.
3) SF that can space the floor and finish on cuts around rim.In small ball, this player could become a 4.
4) PG can bring ball up court and set pace. Must be able to hit spot up threes. When Harden is denied penetration, this man should be able to offer a second chance during a possession to drive it to the basket.

Lin isn't a good spot up shooter at the moment. Teams are denying his penetration by not aggressively running out at him when he gets a pass from Harden. I think TD is the better man defender and better shooter. Lin is just one skill short of being a great complement for Harden offensively. Unfortunately, it is the most needed skill to be with Harden offensively as the second penetration only occurs when the defense has to react to Lin as a shooter.