Really? Wow. I won't respond to that. I learned something new today. An image of a corporation has no ties to its profits at all.
Your assumption that every team will start sending their players home in droves is unfounded. If they feel its in their team's best interests, they will do so. And that's their right, so long as there isn't an explicit rule in place restricting it. If the league feels so strongly against it, then put it in the rule book, have the owners agree to it, and then enforce it consistently. Why is that so hard? Was he complaining about sending players home, or Pop's decision to not play them? I want to be clear we're sticking to the topic at hand.
Believe me, a rule will be set in place eventually. Similarly how flopping ruined the image of the NBA to many, and it finally took this year to set a rule in place. From ESPN: Commissioner David Stern said the Spurs "did a disservice to the league and our fans" when they didn't bring Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili or Danny Green to Miami for the final game of the six-game trip.
Of course you wouldn't. First, you made it an issue about discipline. When that didn't work, you made it an issue about the image of the league. Which was refuted by the countless things the league has and hasn't done that are far more concerning (such as tanking). You claimed that this is because the league is "star driven". If you still can't connect "star driven" with "Stern fining Pops for sitting out his star players in a nationally televised game", then you are hopeless. Just a hint, this isn't the first time players have sat out games for no other reason than to rest, but this is the first time Pops did it in a heavily anticipated game.
Fine. Until then, its should be up to the team which players play, and whether or not they travel with the team if they aren't playing. Apparently from that article you posted earlier, this is what was agreed upon as a general principle, with Stern reserving the right to intervene in "abusive" circumstances (given the context of that discussion, this is probably referring to blatant tanking to improve lottery odds).
That doesn't answer my question, and I don't even know who wrote that. Who is "ESPN" -- John Ireland?
All I"m saying is this act will portray a poor image of the NBA. Flopping was never a rule, and players/teams abuse that all the time. It takes years and years before there was a rule, but the image took a huge hit (jokes are made of flopping all the time). Coaches have rested their players for a while now in unimportant games. But this is the first time that a coach has the nerve to send his players home (and mind you this may be an important game b/c seeding isn't decided this early in the season).
He's the commissioner. He has the right to discipline how he believes would be what is best for the NBA, and what it portrays. Hence this issue is entirely about discipline and how it relates to the image of the NBA. I don't know how that is so hard to understand. Yea, tanking happens to the worst teams. Nobody watches the worst teams in the league. Or do you have proof that the Bobcats/Cavs are heavily scrutinized in the media? I can connect star driven and why STern fined the Spurs. That's been one of my main arguments. And yes, this isn't the first time coaches rest their players. And no, this is NOT the first time in an anticipated game. The Heat/Celtics rest their star players last year in the 2nd to last game on TNT. Please do not think that Stern did this b/c it was a TNT game. http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?id=320424002 In this game, Wade, James, Bosh, Garnett, Rondo all did not play. But they did travel with the team.
Please don't compare this to flopping. Flopping is a matter of deception. It is indefensible. The choice of having a DNP player travel with the team to a road game or stay home isn't comparable. It has no impact whatsoever on the integrity of the game. I ask you what's wrong with it, and all you can offer is a weirdly circular bit of reasoning: "People will think its wrong because players should travel with their team even if they're not playing, and that will hurt the NBA's image." Sorry, that's entirely unconvincing to me. Teams should be able to grant leave to its players without league interference. There's a myriad of legitimate reasons why they may want to do so. If the league thinks differently, again get the owners to agree to it and put it in writing in the rule book.
There is a significant difference between the Heat and Celtics game. That game has absolutely no significance, and both teams were expected to rest their starters anyways prior before the game. That game was not high anticipated at all. Do you think the NBA banked on this game having any intensity? This game is early on in the season, and a decision that Pops made during the day. This game IS highly anticipated and expected to have intensity with stars. Pops provided the intensity, not the stars. And Stern is pissed because he didn't play the stars. And to relate back to the original point, if this is about the image of the NBA, then as I said earlier the league has done and ignored far more serious actions with prevalent consequences. How about the fact that what Stern did basically dramatized the issue and tarnished the league's image more than if Stern had just implemented a new rule to prevent these future occurrences? Bottomline, what Stern did was stupid. He was not within his rights to tell the coach who to put on the court, and if he wanted to make an issue with players being sent home, he could have done so in the future by implementing a rule. Instead, he issued a rant, fined the Spurs, and now made public headlines all around sports.
Teams who have clinched a playoff seed often rest their stars in the final regular season games. That's nothing new. Stern's fine this time occurred because it is rare for teams to exercise the right to sit out players in the middle of the regular season on a nationally televised game. Plus, it happened against the Heat, the league's darling franchise of the moment. Hurt the ratings for Heat games which has the league's most marketable star, and of course Stern will throw a fit.
t_mac1, I'm trying to understand ... are you saying the NBA would not have fined the Spurs if they benched those 4 starters but had them travel with the team?
Going by past history, yes. Pop has done this before. He rested Duncan/Manu/TP in the middle of the season last year vs the Blazers in February 21 (seedings weren't decided then, which meant it could have been an important game). It was also the last game of an 8 game road trip, and it was a back-to-back. And it was a national televised game (albeit on NBATV). http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=320221022 I truly think the fact that Pop did something that has never been done before by sending his players home and not even have them travel with the team was what triggered Stern off this time. It's a precedence. And like I said, if other teams start doing this, especially the big market teams with the bigger stars, it would damage the brand that is the NBA.
too bad you didn't think of it like the Dish Superstar poster...francis 4 prez. btw: I mean that. not just because he agrees with me know, but because he is so awesome in Game Threads in the dish. So, are you actually saying you agree with the Spurs ducking the Heat. B-Bob, you are reasonable and one of my heroes on this board. (yeah, that's weird to say...somewhat a "I love you man" comment...lol) Imagine the story "Lakers" or "Celtics" sit their big three vs Lebron. The media and Dish would be calling them p*****s. Kobe, Gasol, Pierce, Rondo, Garnett are p*****s. No one here would be backing D'Antoni or Rivers or their franchises You know I am right about that! Why does our state rival get special treatment. Ginobody is a p***y for allowing his coach to tell him to take his ball and go home,,,versus playing his favorite game against the best player in the world. There is no other explanation...the Spurs are p*****s...like we all knew in the '90s and David Robinson. Guys...please.
Watching the Utah-Houston game and the Jazz commentators are echoing my sentiments also. Weird to agree with Jazz personnel. :grin:
heyp, I acknowledge point #1 but was just gigging you a little bit. (2) I agree with them deciding to rest old guys and overplayed guys whenever they feel like it's smart, you bet. I truly support Pop and the organization. (3) Great point, BUT what one of the few cool things about the NBA we have left is that different orgs and different coaches get to do things differently (at least once in a while.) Pop is known to be very very into minding player rest, especially for his fossils. Here's a great Abbott piece from ESPN on this: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/52046/did-popovich-or-stern-sit-those-players Key points include that you are six times more likely to be injured when playing tired, and that the league should have people like Pop, who pay attention to player health and data, help them fix the schedule. Further on point #3, I think if the Celtics or Lakers had a reputation for really taking care of player health, and they had the best run org in the league, then I would likely be posting the same points here. Hard to believe, I know. The Spurs are rivals and I do not like them, but I can respect how they run their outfit, and I can respect the heck out of it. (And I have never hated them like I do the Jazz somehow.) 4. You are right that there would be far fewer defenders of the Celtics or Lakers resting starters versus the Heat. But look, how many Heat fans (in particular) really know who Manu is, versus knowing Kobe or Kevin Garnett. The Spurs are anti-celebs in the NBA. Duncan is super boring to watch unless you are a purist or a sadist. 5. See above: their body of work, and the attention they pay to player health. (Yao Ming with the Spurs would have turned out differently. Sorry, but there, I said it. It makes me cry a little. ) And please don't think I am a good poster when it comes to anything, but especially not basketball. I love the sport but I don't watch enough anymore to have any good opinions anyway.
Fighting over players showing up on the bench vs them not showing up at all the game ... this has to be the most r****ded argument EVER.
