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Jeremy Lin's upside

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by meh, Jul 20, 2012.

  1. Ynnis888

    Ynnis888 Member

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    He's working hard on it. :)
     
  2. MOFvsLOF

    MOFvsLOF Member

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    That's what LOHs don't do.
     
  3. Second_Cousin

    Second_Cousin Member

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    I was thinking the same thing. Last year he got criticized for not playing defense... in his zeal to rectify that this year, he may well be spending too much energy to compensate for a lack of innate defensive talent (he's a good defender now because of concerted effort/energy). More reason why his shot is then always short in games.
     
  4. torocan

    torocan Member

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    Will this do?

    Overall PPP allowed rankings - current as of 1:30pm, Dec 1/2012

    Jeremy Lin - 80

    Mike Conley - 19
    Kyrie Irving - 34
    Russell Westbrook - 46
    Kemba Walker - 46
    Monta Ellis - 64
    Jrue Holiday - 80
    Deron Williams - 80
    Darren Collison - 80

    Rajon Rondo - 89
    Brandon Knight - 101
    Kyle Lowry - 107
    AJ Price - 109
    Darius Morris - 110
    Raymond Felton - 115
    Maurice Williams - 149
    Ty Lawson - 157
    Goran Dragic - 174
    Mario Chalmers - 183
    Greivis Vasquez - 183
    Brandon Jennings - 194
    Jason Kidd - 194
    Tony Parker - 206
    Damian Lillard - 206
    Andre Miller - 206
    Chris Paul - 232
    Jeff Teague - 237
    Luke Ridnour - 237
    George Hill - 257
    Tyreke Evans - 265
    Rodney Stuckey - 290

    If you wish to extract a more comprehensive list across guards or individual PG's, feel free to tap Synergy Sports... :p

    Keep in mind, the sample size is still small as we're only 15 games into the season. And Team Defense does influence these numbers (being on a better defensive team helps).

    Still, Jeremy Lin's defense isn't looking half bad at all... :grin:
     
  5. roxxy

    roxxy Member

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    ^ Wait what are those numbers saying Torocan?
     
  6. Second_Cousin

    Second_Cousin Member

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    Defensive effort won't make it to the box score or the ESPN highlight reel (unless you're Ibaka with 7 blocks a night). So in a sense, if Lin is devoting too much energy on defense at the expense of his offensive game, that right there explains a great deal of his "struggles" in the eyes of the public this year, particularly those who don't watch all (or any) of the games. The only bad game I've seen him have defensively was against Nate Robinson/Chicago. If he wasn't so conscientious/diligent in wanting to become a better all-around player, (that includes defending/rebounding/facilitating) and just focused on offense only, maybe just maybe he wouldn't be getting the hate that he's had to so far this year.
     
  7. MOFvsLOF

    MOFvsLOF Member

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  8. Ynnis888

    Ynnis888 Member

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    Quote from BR

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-down-linsanitys-performance-through-15-games


    So be patient people.

    and a comment from E. Reiss...

     
  9. Ynnis888

    Ynnis888 Member

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    ehemmm... :grin:
     
  10. MOFvsLOF

    MOFvsLOF Member

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  11. torocan

    torocan Member

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    It means in terms of actual defensive results (points scored against the Rockets per opponent offensive possession) off any play involving Lin (help, isolation defense, defense of spot up shooters) Lin is currently ranked #80 in the entire NBA, and is borderline just outside of the top 5 among that list of Point Guards (starters).

    Part of this is team defense (funneling a defender works better if there's a competent defense to funnel to like Asik), part of this is his own personal defensive play in terms of contesting shots, steals, blocks, bodying up his man, making the other player uncomfortable, threatening passing lanes and cutting off drives and driving lanes.

    Overall, it jives with other defensive data (like steals and blocks per game) that points to the conclusion that Lin is an above average to very good defender for his position (point guards) and above average to good defender relative to the entire NBA as a whole.

    Keep in mind that the PG position is different than other positions in terms of the difficulty of match ups (he won't be defending Dwight Howard or Dirk Nowitzki very often), just as starters deal with more difficult defensive match ups than 2nd unit defenders.
     
  12. Ynnis888

    Ynnis888 Member

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    Torocan you're amazing. :cool:
     
  13. cytrynowa

    cytrynowa Member

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    Small sample size?
     
  14. torocan

    torocan Member

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    Yes, 15 games is still a small sample size. Enough to point to the trend being indicative, but not a very high level of certainty.

    As we approach 40 or more games, it becomes more reliable barring no significant changes.

    And once you pass a full season without significant change (injury, roster or coaching changes), the sample size becomes fairly reliable in terms of determining a trend of play within that particular system as the difficulty of opponents flattens out (mix of difficult and easy opponents), with that particular line up.

    As for Lin, his #128 ranking last year over 35 games (25 as a starter) in spite of going through 3 coaches, combined with this season's #80 over 15 games tends to point towards Lin being an above average to good defender, with a theoretical potential upside to become a very good with possible elite defensive play for his position.

    It will of course take a lot more time to truly determine Lin's upside potential in terms of defense, just as it will with his offense and facilitation as he is still very young in his development in terms of actual game time minutes and chronological age.

    As the coaches and Morey continue to point out, Lin is an unfinished product. And the odds are we won't see the final results until somewhere between 2 to 3 seasons from now assuming he continues to play starter minutes.
     
  15. DreamWeaver

    DreamWeaver Member

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    LOL. When will we have a torocan's upside thread? :grin:
     
  16. roxxy

    roxxy Member

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    A lot of context needs to be applied though with these numbers is my point though. Kyrie Irving is ranked 34th for example when his defense is on Dame Lillards level or worse. I am pretty sure the coach of the Cavs has Kyrie guard the opponents worst wing Kyrie is just lackadaisical on defense & the way he goes about it is bad. Context is key when observing these numbers is all.
     
  17. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Lin is a high steals guy, he rebounds well for his position, and he has good size. So that in itself is a good indication that he's helping on defense.

    I think the issues people have brought up about his man defense is a little overstated. But I'll defer to his coach's opinion ultimately on that, and Sampson apparently feels that Lin struggles with the quicker PGs (at least compared to Douglas).
     
  18. roxxy

    roxxy Member

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    *face meets palm* ;)

    But seriously our defense has gotten worse under Sampson. Our Drtg right now is really bad kind of frustrating to see.
     
  19. Ynnis888

    Ynnis888 Member

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    He's like a clutchwipedia. :grin:
     
  20. cytrynowa

    cytrynowa Member

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    Thanks for your always insightful response, but I was talking about Irving's head scratching rank of 34 (must have missed my bolding).
     

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