Hall of Fames, in general, are a sham. The organization in Cooperstown is more despicable and pretentious than Bud Selig and the Yankees combined. For the writers and HOF organizers...anything that gives them a bigger erection I guess. Interestingly enough, a guy like Clemens is obsessed with the Hall. Before the allegations, he had visited the Hall on multiple occasions, very buddy-buddy with the organizers. He might not admit it publicly, but he will genuinely be hurt if he doesn't get in first ballot, and will be devastated if he doesn't get in at all. With that said, I guarantee you there will be a TON of sympathy votes for the guy (certainly around Texas), and I don't doubt that he's campaigning to get votes.
There are a lot of voters who don't believe in voting for a guy on the first ballot at all. That's fine. I don't think it's a discussion on Biggio. I think he will go in on the first ballot, 100%. I have no doubt whatsoever. If he doesn't go in I'd be stunned. The uproar locally that Bagwell is not in the HOF stems from a lack of understanding of how the HOF voting works and a local bias. I was 100% sure Bagwell wouldn't go in on the first ballot. A power hitter in the steroid era that went from scrawny kid to muscled star and STILL failed to hit the magic numbers...he had no chance to go in that early.
We've established that less than 2% of the voters don't believe in first ballot. A lack of understading? It is this simple, BBWAA members get a ballot, they can fill out up to 10 names. We all knew he wouldn't get in 1st ballot, and when the 2nd time came around we knew he wouldn't immediately get a big enough jump. Even forgiving 1st ballot crap, there is no reason why guys are waiting over a decade before finally getting voted in.
Robert Alomar did not get 3000 hits and he spit in the face of an umpire. Gaylord Perry admitted to cheating as a pitcher and lost a ton of games, both things that hurt him in the ballotting process. (Still got in on 2nd or 3rd time?) Eddie Matthews is a good name. I'm not sure why he didn't get in, but it was the 70s. Craig Biggio is going in on the first ballot.
Because 3K hit define a player? Sorry that Alomar could only get 2700 hits, while hitting over .300, making 12 all-star teams, 9 gold gloves, etc. Sorry he spit on a guy once that had no say in his being elected. Perry lost a ton of games, but won 300. Biggio got out way more times than he got hits. Biggio did play in the steroids era with a number of suspected and even confirmed users. Mathews didn't get in first time because they are idiots. Barely made it in on his 5th try. Wasn't even listed on a third of the ballots his first time.
You won't find much of it here. The complaints I have heard is that he was never in the MVP discussion, he wasn't the best at his position, he only hit about .280 for his career, he wasn't great defensively (4GGs, but statistically he wasn't good at any position), and just a lack of miseducation. Biggio was the best NL 2B of the 90s. He led the league in runs twice, doubles 3 times, and steals once, so he has led some important categories. Jeff Kent won an MVP, but it was his only top 5 finish compared to Biggio's 2.
Whoever makes this statement (concerning 2B) doesn't understand defense. He was great--ELITE--at 2B defense. (not so good at C!) Defensive metrics, and I know I will get hammered for this statement, are still very lacking.
Rose is banned from MLB, not baseball in general. The Hall of Fame is not controlled by MLB. They have their own autonomy and they are hiding behind MLB's ban in not putting Rose in as he belongs. It's stupid and indefensible. They acknowledge the hits record, iirc. The guy, prick though he is, should have a bust just like every other prick and a-hole who was historically great on the field.
Because of the entire "steroids" thing... I doubt Bagwell gets in the hall of fame at the same time Biggio, who ISN'T involved in the scam, does. That's what SHE said. :grin:
I think Biggio's accomplishments, like Joe Morgan's, will grow in esteem as people take a greater, harder look at his numbers. You can't argue with the '98 MVP results - but his 50/50 that year is the type of stat that a lot of people are going to recognize was just a great an accomplishment as Sosa/McGwire's HR chase. The previous year, he didn't hit into a DP in 162 games played. Again, it doesn't initially jump out at you, like a HR - but man, oh man... it is every bit as impressive. The unfortunate/ironic thing about Biggio - he was pretty mediocre his final 6 seasons and it cut into his averages considerably. It probably cost him... 10-ish points on his average; 20-ish points on his OB%; 20-ish points on his OPS. But without those final 6 seasons, he doesn't get to 3,000 and without 3,000, I think he has a much tougher case. I've always argued that, milestones aside, Bagwell's candidacy is much stronger than Biggio's.
I have always thought that Bagwell had the better career. While I love Biggio I think it numbers are inflated by continuing to play after he was garbage.
Garbage? Only Biggio's final season did he post a negative WAR. The fact is he was a great player that spent the last several seasons as a mostly average player, and we got frusturated by him hitting lead-off when he clearly wasn't a lead-off hitter anymore.
Sporting News Odds: Biggio 7-2 Bags 5-1 http://linemakers.sportingnews.com/...morris-barry-bonds-roger-clemens-craig-biggio
seems like yesterday, we win the central with the killerbees, biggio,bell,bagwell,berkman, n i would throw in berry as well. miss the 90's.
