[Uh-Oh]Israel and Gaza on the brink of all out WAR

So they killed one of their own for suspicion he was collaborating with Israel?

Worthless human beings.

 

That guy should be able to mute the participants. That's like the D&D with microphones...

 

What is the difference between what these guys did and what the US does when they target kill their own that are accused of treason/preaching terrorism?


For the record, before ATW and his kin try to attack me, I think both acts are horrendous. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

 

If you can't tell the difference - it says everything about where you stand.

 

I'm guessing you are citing one specific case, the Al-Awalki execution.

This is something they regularly do, there is a big difference bud. This is so deplorable and medieval it isn't even close. By dragging someone aorund it transcends normal punishment and is humiliating.

It is also a scare tactic towards the people of gaza that they have to side with hamaas or **** like this happens.

 

And for the record, all the muslims I know would condemn this just as much as me, there is a BIG difference and everyone knows Hamas is the scum of the earth.

 

I'd say this is pretty objective.

I'll also requote:

Mathloom is right when he says both parties choose the dates that best support them.

The op-ed by Omar Baddar posted by Kwame is every bit as biased as a blog post from a Jewish settler. And the tone of his own posts look to be about as enlightened as an editorial from the Final Call. I'm extremely critical of the Israeli government, but I base my criticism on facts.

Al-Jazeera is hardly pro-Israel but for the most part they are way more responsible about how they report Israel than most western media other than maybe Reuters.

I live here, so for me, and most people living here, the news of what is actually happening and it's resolution is what is of interest. Not anecdotes about the Holocaust or the Nakba or Baruch Goldstein (who was an American terrorist, by the way) or the Six Day War. These things aren't that relevant to the topic at hand and push the conversation into places they don't belong.

If I respond to all those things, then I'm left posting pictures of missiles stored in mosques from 2008 and playing Hasbara propagandist, and it's something I find pointless. I'm not here to argue how awesome Israel is and how unshakable it's moral high ground is, and it's hard to take anyone seriously that does.

Hamas has been rocketing Israel for 12 years. Every once in a while, it escalates and Israel retaliates. The term the army uses is "mowing the grass" which means to reset the arsenal back to zero. They've tried to negotiate in the past, but Hamas always returns to rocketing before anything can be settled. When it flares up, as it has now, the approach is cold and calculated, and the politicians usually let the military handle it. Iron Dome helped avoid the need for a ground invasion and I'm thankful for that. It would otherwise be worse that Cast Lead.

Hamas has few real friends. They hate the PA and they are pretty snide to the Gulf States that try to help them. Their own people hate them and are punished for trying to leave. There are mothers in prison there for helping their sons escape. These things don't exist because the Israeli army operates a weapons embargo and when over 1000 missiles are launched in less than week, it's hardly an argument for lifting it.

Supposedly there is a cease-fire in effect, but this evening communities in the south were protesting against it. It isn't because they are devil slave-masters that want to kill Muslim babies. It's because they know that a cease-fire means it's only a matter of time until the rockets come back.

Hamas does not do treaties. They only do hudnas, which are temporary cease-fires. Hamas exists to "liberate" Israel. Peace would be the death of their legitimacy. Their existence depends upon conflict. So if you are an average Israeli in the south and know that and that 12 years of off and on hudnas haven't stopped the code red sirens, it might have an effect on your ability to stay civil.

Another thing that bothers me is that no one reports rocket strikes outside of major cities or kibbutzim (Ashdod, Beer Sheva, Tel Aviv, Sderot, etc) and there are plenty. The people who live in all those rural communities and small towns outside of all those towns are Bedouin. Iron Dome protects the big cities, but it doesn't protect the Bedouin villages, many of which aren't officially recognized by Israel for a variety of reasons, most of them very stupid.

Now I'm sure if someone was killed or injured, we'd hear about it, and so far I haven't heard of any Bedouin hurt, at least in this mini-war, but Hamas has been clear that they don't care about killing Muslims, hence the attacks on Jerusalem. The official line is that any innocents killed are shahids, so it's ok.

This missile landed in the water, close to two of the largest mosques in Tel Aviv. The minaret you see when the camera pans to the left from the Mahmoudiya Mosque, which I think is the largest mosque in Central Israel. Had they managed to hit it, they'd be celebrating hitting Tel Aviv for the first time.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Gqgle-I3zI4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's also about 5 minutes walk from where I live.


The big question mark about the whole thing is why Israel decided to assassinate Jabari. That decision came from the top and was what really ratcheted up Hamas' rage.

The Israeli government is busy arguing it was "legal" (as if they or anyone else cares) instead of explaining why. But this is of course, how the game is played and how the status quo is preserved in the short term at the expense of the long.

 

Convenient for you to quote only the part you wish to attack.

For the People of Gaza, Hamas is the Government. If someone from their midst potentially is siding with Israel (The biggest Terrorist in the world), and their sworn enemy; I can see Hamas treating them as traitors.

Also for the record, this is completely against Islamic law; It is inhumane and an unfair form of justice/law.

 

No. They killed six.

It might very well be true, but who knows?

 

Horrible, I wonder what Israel would do to someone that gave up intelligence information to the Palestinians.

 

They would certainly not drag them through the streets.

 

Shin Bet arrests Israelis that cross the line to protest with Palestinians who have been affected by the security fence. They also keep a file of people of "troublemakers" which gets you extra scrutiny in the airport, surveillance, etc. It also gets some foreigners deported.

Since I'm a musician I'm sometimes courted to go to these things. I try to keep my public causes limited to labor disputes and things that aren't conflict related because I don't want to be deported or lose my privileges to play shows for Arab fans in Ramallah. I also don't write overtly political songs or try to piss off anyone. My own fanbase is pretty diverse, and I try to keep it about my music.

The closest thing I know to a "spy" is maybe Vanunu, and he's more of a whistleblower.

 

Sad state of affairs in your country...

http://thehill.com/blogs/global-aff...-resolution-defending-israels-actions-in-gaza

The guy is not even saying it should've gone the other way, just that there should be some discussion/debate. Goes to show that when you hear these guys supporting it in the media, they don't give a damn about the facts, their mind is made up.

 

American Jews show solidarity with Israel during visit

JERUSALEM -- Jewish spiritual and community leaders from the United States arrived in Israel on Tuesday to show solidarity with the Israeli people.

"Our goal is to visualize what is going on here and to take a message back to the United States that Israel is doing what it must to survive," said Michael Siegal, chairman of board of trustees for the Cleveland Jewish Federation and Jewish Federations of North America.

The Jewish Federations of North America is an umbrella organization representing some 155 Jewish federations and more than 300 smaller network communities across North America. Its members have pledged $5 million to help Israelis overcome the rocket attacks from Hamas, especially those Israelis living in the country's south where hundreds of rockets have landed.

"We experienced five different air raid scenarios, including a point where we had to leave the bus and lie on the side of the road where we watched the Iron Dome intercept rockets above us," said Siegal, who arrived here with 15 others on Sunday.

"We also saw Israeli children running into bomb shelters as sirens sounded," he said. "There was real fear on their faces."

On Monday alone some 120 rockets were fired into southern Israel; the Iron Dome defense system intercepted most of them. On Tuesday, as the U.S. group toured areas under attack, more rockets streaked over the sky.

Red Alerts, sirens and text messages that give people 15 seconds of warning that a rocket is on its way, sounded as far away as Jerusalem. Meanwhile Israel increased its attacks on Hamas' targets and talk of a ground operation by Israel's military into the Gaza Strip grew intense.

"I came because I think it is very important for the American Jewish community to show its support for Israel at this time of crisis," said Daniel Odrezin, assistant executive director of the Jewish Federation of Birmingham, Ala.

"Coming here from the U.S. and experiencing this conflict is an indescribable feeling," said Odrezin, adding that it "is hard for those not here to really understand the magnitude and the effects of on-going rocket strikes on the Israeli population."

Among the U.S. Jewish leaders here are ones who arrived from New York, Chicago, Boston, New Jersey,Cleveland, Miami, Los Angeles, Washington and Minneapolis.

About 2 dozen rabbis from congregations across the USA also arrived in Israel this week, paying condolence calls to families affected by the terror attacks, including the families of people killed in by a rocket Thursday.

"We felt it was important for American rabbis to make show of solidarity with the Israeli people," said Rabbi Leonard Matansky, head of the K.I.N.S congregation in West Rodgers Park, Chicago, and dean of the Ida Crown Jewish Academy, the largest Jewish high school in Chicago.

Matansky, who is also vice president of the Rabbinical Council of America, explained that the decision to come to Israel was only made Friday night. His group brought with them hundreds of gifts for Israeli children who spend time in bomb shelters.

"Together we represent thousands of Jews in America and there is tremendous concern among American Jewry about what is happening here, it is our responsibility to take news from here back to our communities in the U.S.," Matansky said.

http://www.freep.com/usatoday/article/1716771?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|s

 

I know you feel strongly about this, but the way America handled the Yemen assassination or how Israel deals with people it considers traitors is vastly different (and civilized) than the spy example.

Tying up a body behind a motorcycle, dragging it through the streets, and chanting 'God is great!' is not in the same continent - let alone league - as the above. It's useful to distill different scenarios to a principle and say, 'hrm this violates the same standard.' But, that mental exercise goes out the window when the degree of depravity reaches this level. This was some Jasper, TX/James Byrd-type stuff.

I hope you're aware how much of an outlier you are from the 'group' - meaning the typical person living in the Western world. I assume you probably don't care about not belonging to the mold or think the 'group' is biased/ethnocentric. If that's the case, it's unfortunate because it seems you want peace for both sides. Ironically your views would alienate many Israelis and non- Israelis - both of which are needed for a real solution to this old BS of a conflict.

 

I think we can look at images of that nature elsewhere, if that sort of thing turns you on. We don't need them here. If you're going to post that crap, at least spoiler it.

 

Terrible. Animals.

But to adeelsiddiqui, it's on the same moral level as the US government eliminating a terrorist (and thereby saving lives).