[Uh-Oh]Israel and Gaza on the brink of all out WAR

Horrible whats going on over there, just horrible.

 

From

and has the inside ups about what's going on in the peace negotiations. Or should I say past peace negotiations, now that one of the negotiators is dead.

 

Israel has been engaging in collective punishment long before Nov. 8th as well. Gaza has essentially been an open-air prison. International law is pretty clear that the Palestinians do have the right to resist, especially when Israel engages in sieges, assaults, and blockades against them. So if you want to go back before Nov. 8th, then we can go back as long as you would like. But the fact remains that this current cycle of violence is attributed to Israeli provocations and aggression, especially the killing of kids playing soccer.

So, in other words, are you saying you have no evidence that this current cycle of violence is a result of Palestinian actions before Nov. 8th?

It's funny how Israel drops all these bombs on a densely populated area (almost 1.7 million people live in Gaza) then turns around and tells the world that Hamas is hiding behind the victims.

 

I'm thrilled to have the attention of your Internet schmuck persona. Are you like mentally disturbed or something? Maybe megalomania? Get that checked out kid.

 

Likud support the zero-state solution, namely expulsion. And, the Likud in here do so, as well. But, much as with many of the same's anti-black racism, the Likud lie about their true agendas because they don't want to be embarassed in the community of thinking men.

 

Current cycle is apparently completely arbitrary in your view. The attacks from Hamas before and after November 8 consisted of rockets and mortars being used against the civilian population of Israel. Thus, the impetus for said attacks could not possibly have occurred on November 8, because that would require that the earlier attacks were in response to an event that had not yet occurred.

Since it is clear that the beginning was not something happening on November 8, you have chosen to move the goal posts (it's the siege, blockade, etc.) But the blockade followed violence as well, as did Operation Cast Lead. All of the major military actions by Israel come on the heels of attacks by Palestinians, tracing back to even before there was an Israel. Clearly neither side can truly be said to have started any particular segment of the violence. All that we are left with then is to examine HOW they conduct their operations, instead of WHY.

That is not what I am saying at all. Here is a graph of rocket attacks from Gaza since 2001.

Clearly if 600 rocket attacks were launched (and 200 mortar attacks) before November 8th, than the impetus for the attacks could not be a child's death on November 8th. Linear time doesn't work that way.

They drop the bombs were the targets are. There don't need to be any civilian casualties. If Hamas put all their rocket batteries in unpopulated areas, where do you think the bombs would be dropped? It isn't funny, it's tragic, but it is a tragedy engineered by Hamas.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_wrongs_make_a_right

Both sides have and are committing war crimes.

http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/WebART/585-08?OpenDocument

The worst part is that Hamas has violated less of the items listed in that link than Israel.

 

You're the one with an arbitrary view. Why wasn't there a cycle of violence on this level last month or last year? Why wasn't this thread started in Oct.? Did Israel just decide that now would be the best time to attack Gaza? Of course not, a series of events occurred leading up to the current situation. If you don't want to accept the initial video I used as a source, here's another one. Again, the explanation is pretty clear:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1ayD_rm1Vls" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

No, that's incorrect... Again, see the video above. Now, if you're saying the current levels of violence, which we haven't seen in years, are a result of something that happened before Nov. 8th then you have to provide some supporting evidence. You haven't done so yet. There were a similar number of rocket attacks last year, but we did not see an escalation to this level.

Wait, all the major military actions by Israel come in response to Palestinian attacks even BEFORE there was an Israel? How is that even possible?

In general, what you're saying is that Israel or the Zionist terrorists that colonized Palestine have never initiated acts of terrorism, violence, and/or aggression. That's a new one.

Here's some information that might surprise you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte#Assassination
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

Did Hamas engineer the murder by Israel of Palestinian kids who were playing soccer?

You seem so concerned about rockets and mortars being fired at Israel. Do you share the same concern for the 1.7 million Gazans who are being collectively punished by Israel or are you going to blame the victims again? I'm sure you know that a blockade is an act of war. Can you also provide us with more statistics on the number of innocent civilians that the Israelis have killed in their bombing campaigns and military operations in Gaza versus the number of Israeli civilians that have died as a result of this rocket fire you cite? Who do you think is guilty of more war crimes...the Israeli regime or Hamas?

 

Here is a video for you pro-Israel people. Listen to what these Jewish fanatics are saying. They definitely seem to enjoy preaching hate:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hZP1Pe3J2Dc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Niall Ferguson are good people.

They believe in not mutilating your daughters.

Of course, from your perspective, anyone who is not Islamist like you is an extremist.

All a matter of perspective.

 

Gershon Baskin has a lot of credibility so I would tend to believe what he says. He's been a key negotiator since the 80s for a two state solution and does it through the auspices of his own NGO. The decision to assassinate Jabari was almost for sure made by the PM or the Chief of Staff...but no one but Bibi and Barak knows why or how that decision was made.

There's a huge disconnect between those two sociopaths and the army and intelligence services, who are usually the biggest opponents to any adventurism.

With that said, even he sees this as a war of no choice, and explains how Hamas likes to play loose with the timeline and casus belli. It also details the importance of Egyptian intelligence in mediation and their role in general.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/17/gershon-baskin_n_2152231.html

@Kwame, I think Palestinians have a right to resist the Occupation, and most do it (now) in the West Bank through organized peaceful protest, which I fully support.

Gaza is not occupied, and Hamas views "resistance" as the complete destruction of the State of Israel, and realizes this resistance by shooting Iranian rockets at nearby civillian population centers, many of which are Arab. If you can't see the difference between these two distinct situations and methods of resistance, then you are either uninformed or more extreme in your views than any Muslim I know in Israel.

 

Kwame's line of argumentation:

1) Palestinians have a right to resist.
2) This includes anything they want (rockets, suicide bombings, anything). It's all ok because they have a right to resist.

Kwame's an extremist.

 

Update on the situation.

 

Very well said.

 

Coming back to this thread. I apologize for being that snappy about that post and also to Mathloom. I wasn't bothered about being lumped with Mathloom but about as being a relentless critic of Israel. I do and will criticize Israel but I think there is no moral high ground here. It is clear to me that Hamas is more interested in fighting Israel than they are for the safety and well being of the Gazans. As I said earlier one of the big tragedies of this situation is that Gazans the only alternative to Hamas is the corrupt and weak PA.

Thank you and Zboy for your your compliments and I appreciate it.

 

I usually don't redistribute the silly stuff that gets posted in FB, but this was some dark comic relief:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sdkOuwntBYQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

I've heard this brought up several times that election politics in Israel might've played a role in the decision to assassinate Jabari. Is that a wide spread view in Israel?

The Palestinians have never had a leader with enough stature to lead a major non-violent movement. There have been Palestinians who have preached non-violence but there hasn't been a Palestinian Ghandi, Mandela or Tutu who could carry enough moral weight to influence the Palestinians as a whole. In 1993 the hope was that Arafat would become a Mandela but he was too weak both politically and morally to do so.

Even if Hamas were willing to agree to a cease fire how much control do they have of Gaza to completely stop rocket attacks?

 

There are 441000 people in Gaza do you believe they are all terrorists? I am going to guess most aren't. If Israel can learn something from the US they should realize it isn't about winning the war. It is about winning the hearts and minds of the people.

Israel has to realize they just can't act like Hamas they have to have higher standards.