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The Rockets have landed James Harden!

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Carl Herrera, Oct 27, 2012.

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The Rockets landed James Harden for K-Mart, Lamb + draft picks. Do you like the move?

  1. YES

    1,287 vote(s)
    85.7%
  2. NO

    215 vote(s)
    14.3%
  1. Uprising

    Uprising Contributing Member

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    Cuttino Mobley

    @CuttinosLife
    I'm putting it out there now. I love the Houston Rockets backcourt. Good luck guys. Great game Lin and Harden.
    31 Oct 12
     
  2. BeardlyBeardman

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    ESPN boards are so epic this morning.

    Knicksfans: "Rockets are so screwed! They overpaid Lin and Asik and now they can't afford to put anything around Harden! They won't get any better now!

    *rockets fans explain how the contracts are spread out over the cap and note that they still have max contract room*

    Knickfans: "Well ... well .... they're still screwed cause they overpaid!"

    No, no they didn't Butthurt McGee. No they didn't.
     
  3. torocan

    torocan Member

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    This.

    The long 2 is mathematically the worst shot in basketball in terms of point/shot return. And it's ONLY worthwhile if you can't shoot the 3, can't get to the Rim or can't pass for crap.

    NONE of those apply to Harden... which is why he WISELY chooses to avoid those shots whenever possible. He would rather RESET the offense than force up a long 2 -- as he SHOULD.

    The long/mid-range 2 is a great shot... for those that HAVE to use it.

    Harden is not one of those players.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    rep'd
     
  5. rolyat93

    rolyat93 Contributing Member

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  6. meh

    meh Contributing Member

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    But isn't it possible to take away both the drive and the 3 pointer? I know it's much more difficult today with rules being what they are. But surely some of the smarter defensive teams can find ways to limit Harden's shots. I think we'll see how he plays against Atlanta, which do feature two bigs inside with Smith and Horford.
     
  7. felixng2012

    felixng2012 Member

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    Really Knicks fans should never say anything about overpaying. They have Stat on the books. I hate the uselses bum Stat. Ugh.... I never wanted him on the Knicks in the first place. I wish we landed CP3.... CP3, Chandler and some quality starters and a great bench would be much better than what we have right now. Melo can't get it done. Amare is washed up and can't guard a garbage can.
     
  8. rocketsfan7

    rocketsfan7 Member

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    IMHO

    I think I can provide some insight into Sweet Lou and his thinking.

    It is in his nature to be critical and to always find something to nitpick at. For him, perfection is unattainable and no one is infallible. There will never be someone who is perfect - even the top Olympic athletes - even the best basketball players in history. But make no mistake, his heart is in the right place. He calls it like it is and thinks that there is room for improvement in everyone and everything. If you don't see this, he comes across as abrasive.

    Sweet Lou am I right?
     
  9. torocan

    torocan Member

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    Sure.... IF Harden is the only offensive threat on the floor.

    Let's approach this in terms of X's and O's.

    To take out the 3 point shot, you need to play Harden TIGHT. However, if you do that then he is fast enough to drive past you.

    To take out his drives, you need to pack the paint. Any single coverage outside of a premium big, he'll just do a step around and score.

    So, to take out both, you require a minimum of 2 defenders. One to play Harden up close (or he'll drop the 3) AND one or more help defenders available on the switch to rotate into the paint.

    This is why Harden was having such difficulty when Lin was sitting. The Rockets don't have alot of credible offensive players. Delfino can score, but he's not creating his own shot. Defenses will realize this fairly quickly and simply double Harden and play Delfino tight then dare the rest of the team (players like TD) to shoot while packing the paint.

    When Lin was sitting, the Pistons were able to play Harden close, AND rotate a help defender to double team him, and STILL have a close rotation defender to stop him if he manages to split the double team.

    The end result was what you saw... Harden passing out of the double team. That results in a 4 on 3 mismatch, which is great IF you can score the ball once it's out of Harden's hands.

    This is where Lin's presence is critical. Since Lin CAN generate his own shot, and he IS a good passer with good court vision, he's able to take maximum advantage of the mismatches that result from overplaying Harden.

    This goes both ways. While Lin isn't the scorer that Harden is, he's good enough that defenses have to respect him. They still play him fairly tight with help defense. You'll notice in last night's game they hardly ever sagged off him despite his shooting in the pre-season.

    And this is why Harden + Lin was so much more devastating than Harden on his own, or Lin on his own will ever be.

    As long as Harden is on the floor with another credible offensive player (which in the case of the Rockets right now is Lin and to a lesser degree Delfino), Harden will hardly ever be in the position where he needs to shoot the long 2 unless the clock is running down.

    That's not to say any other credible offensive threat couldn't do the same for Harden, the main difference here is it's a bonus that Lin is not only able to find easy shots for his team mates but score as well. Essentially a double bonus for the PG position vs a pure passing PG like a Rubio or Calderon.

    Not to mention he's pretty much all we have at the moment. :p

    And it's this particular dynamic between the two players that led me to predict that Lin and Harden's game were pretty close to ideal in terms of fit.

    2 x driving threats that can pass and score means for a defense it's pick your poison, as the Pistons found out.
     
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  10. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    would not be a bad idea.
     
  11. davidio840

    davidio840 Contributing Member

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    Lol I was one of them trying to explain that to them. They are completely clueless.
     
  12. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    I think you are reading something in my comments that just isn't there.
     
  13. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    That lebron didn't go anywhere until he developed a mid-range game in his last two years with Miami?

    Even Lebron admits that himself - saying it was key to his success this past year.
     
  14. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Look, I am just trying to say - if our goal is to build a contender and not just make the playoffs, you have to look at each player and see what their strengths and weaknesses are.

    Harden is a great player, but is he good enough to pull an entire team to the next level or do you end up with Harden and a bunch of weaker players ala Lebron in Cleveland? ANd I don't think Harden is ever going to be Lebron. There's just no player than can be that big and that good all around.

    We don't want that.

    Harden has holes in his game. That's all I am saying. THey are fixable hole, but he needs a coach who is going to impress upon him the difference between getting the easy points based on his athelticism and learning how to get winning shots in difficult situations for instance against a Miami team that focused on shutting him down.

    You can't live off of 3 pointers, and ultimately you will have cold streaks. And a team can contain any given player on any team if they are two-dimensional. That's why Kobe, Sam, Bird, MJ, Wade, Lebron - all developed games from scoring 10-17 feet away from the basket - the mid-range.

    I am happy Harden did well last night. I am contrary to what the fools say on this board, very happy at his play and excited to have him on his team. I am only making a technical analysis of what I see and where his weaknesses are, and what we need to be a contender.

    My conclusion - Harden isn't enough to make us a contender, but he will make us good enough that the draft won't be an avenue for us either. So where are we going to get that other star from???
     
  15. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    I think the hope is that the Rockets will be exciting enough this year and Harden's star will shine bright enough to where we'll be able to attract top-level talent next summer.
     
  16. davidio840

    davidio840 Contributing Member

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    Bingo!
     
  17. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    If Harden truly develops into that special type of player - he will need a mid range game!
     
  18. cbk41

    cbk41 Member

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    Implying he doesn't really have one, and just chooses not to use it since he can be effective in:

    1) Driving and penetrating; getting to the rim
    2) Shooting the long ball
    3) Playmaking/assisting off the drive

    His mid-range numbers are probably poor because most of the time he chooses not to do it, and when he does-- it's a bad shot. Every player who handles the ball as much as Harden does forces up some bad shots every now and then. And you know what types those usually are? Mid range shots! An open 3/driving into the lane is never a bad shot and thats what his game predicates on.

    You cite that lebron never won a ring until he developed a mid-game, right? Well he also doesn't have the luxury of being a dead-eye long ball shooter like Harden can be.
     
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  19. cbk41

    cbk41 Member

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    Also, a lot of the time when Harden is in mid-range and the defense is about to play up on him or double him he's going for an assist to a guy cutting hard to the basket. 12 assists, man. Would you of rather him take a jumper or get Greg Smith a nice jam?
     
  20. mr. 13 in 33

    mr. 13 in 33 Member

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    When does Durants contract with okc expire cause I was thinking what if durant joined harden and played with Houston :rolleyes:
     

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