Alright, before everybody's going to freak out, think about this for a second. In 2001/2002 before Yao came into the league these 2 critical rule changes + 1 minor were applied: Eliminating all existing illegal defense guidelines, thus allowing zone defence. Establishing a defensive 3-second rule, limiting the amount of time a defensive player may stand in the lane when he is not closely guarding someone. Eliminating touch fouls by allowing brief contact initiated by a defensive player if it does not impede the progress of the player with the ball. Regarding the first two, everybody understand how this impacted the game on offense, especially for centers. Can you imagine it teams had to defend Yao one and one all the time, how Yao would've dominated even more. He really struggled with zone defense because they took away the opportunity to get him the ball, get to the spot centers used to dominate and beat a guy who's inferior. It also stopped teams for going to their dominant player, and just clear out and let him go to work. On defense, the 3 second rule was hard for a guy like Yao who was late on rotations plenty of times whereas before he could've camped there and just block shots. Now when we look at the numbers, Yao was a 20-10 guy throughout his most of his career: <script type="text/javascript" src="http://widgets.sports-reference.com/wg.fcgi?css=1&site=bbr&url=%2Fplayers%2Fm%2Fmingya01.html&div=div_per_game"></script> He was unstoppable on offense despite the rule changes, there was absolutely no defender who could stop him. The whole debate about Bynum or Howard being the best would be obsolete. Want proof? Here it its: Yao vs. Bynum: <script type="text/javascript" src="http://widgets.sports-reference.com/wg.fcgi?css=1&site=bbr&url=%2Fplay-index%2Fh2h_finder.cgi%3Frequest%3D1%26p1%3Dmingya01%26p2%3Dbynuman01&div=div_stats"></script> Yao vs. Dwight: <script type="text/javascript" src="http://widgets.sports-reference.com/wg.fcgi?css=1&site=bbr&url=%2Fplay-index%2Fh2h_finder.cgi%3Frequest%3D1%26p1%3Dmingya01%26p2%3Dhowardw01&div=div_stats"></script> Both are no contest. Now there are a lot of people who think Shaq is top 5 center of all time material, so let's compare: <script type="text/javascript" src="http://widgets.sports-reference.com/wg.fcgi?css=1&site=bbr&url=%2Fplay-index%2Fh2h_finder.cgi%3Frequest%3D1%26p1%3Dmingya01%26p2%3Donealsh01&div=div_stats"></script> Shaq was better, no argument there, because age / years played cancel each other out since Yao was beginning and Shaq fading. Of course these personal matchups are not saying much but just in case people would want to argue Yao was not the best center in the league, here's proof he was beating Howard and Bynum like baby seals Despite being a minor 3rd rule change, the allowing of minor touching initiated by a defender, and you have looked at many Rockets games, you know this had a great impact on Yao. The refs actually allowed players to get away with a lot and the word minor touching might have well stated "put an elbow in the back, pushing off or shoving". Especially when it comes to Yao. Yao was manhandled a lot and we all know had this rule been properly implemented, guys would've fouled out a lot more because of Yao's dominant (frame). The reason refs treated Yao differently, in a negative way, can be argued but I think his size and dominance is what caused refs to hold their whistles when 'smaller' guys were guarding him. In the case of Yao, 99,99% of the league was smaller so there you go. This also had an impact on defense were Yao was constantly called for a touch foul. Again, the fact he was big had a negatitive effect since guys could act like he gave them a big push or flop since they couldn't take a little arm from the big fellow. Also I think even if refs saw nothing wrong, they still called him for it just because, but that's just my opinion. Yao definitely would've been even more dominant on defense if they hadn't changed the illegal defense and 3 second rule that sort of allowed big men to dominate in this league for years. I'm not asking if you think Yao was a top 5 center per se, but even if he should be in the discussion because of the rule changes and consequently how refs called it on Yao?
Don't know what went wrong, here are the links to the matchups of Yao: vs. Shaq: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=mingya01&p2=onealsh01 vs. Howard: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=mingya01&p2=howardw01 vs. Bynum: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=mingya01&p2=bynuman01
Upon Yao's retirement announcement, Shaq(on ESPN) said yao would be a top5 center in history had he stayed healthy to finish the career. But the rule changes maybe due to Shaq's dominance. In the old rules, even Chamblelain wouldn't be able to guard Yao IMO.
Yao was a beast even if he was borderline oafish at times. However, most people's lasting memories will be the most recent one--his career ending injury and that sometimes jades the overall picture of what an effective player Yao was when he was healthy. I try to keep an optimistic perspective on Yao's career because not only was he individually successful on and off the court, the Rockets were very competitive, consistent playoff contenders, and dark horse championship contenders.
Yao was a really good center in a time period when the league didn't have many good centers. On the frustrating side of things as a Rocket's fan, he was one of the only "superstar" players who could be denied the ball for huge stretches of time just by fronting him with a role player. That, his relatively lackluster postseason success, and his injuries keep me from seriously considering him a top 5 of all time center. He was the number 1 center in the league for several seasons of his career though and that is a note worthy accomplishment.
Is it crapping on the Rockets for me to dare suggest that, no, I don't think Yao is anywhere near the discussion of top 5 centers of all time?
Top 5 on potential? Arvydis Sabonis had the potential to be a top 3 center to, but he wasnt due to many different circumstances Olajuwon Kareem Shaq Wilt Admiral David Robinson Ewing Moses Malone Alonzo Mourning Are jus some of the ones better then yao off the top of my head.
Top 5 what? All time? Love Yao, but no way. His career is too short. Top 5 since Hakeem retired? Definitely.
That's basically it. When his contemporaries are guys like Dwight Howard and Andrew Bynum (who are both severely overrated compared to the great centers of other eras), that tells you all you need to know about the era he played in. And I don't need to beat a dead horse, but a center who deserves to be mentioned in a top 5 discussion should probably have more than one playoff series win in his entire career. Not the least of which was the fact that he was a COMPLETE STIFF.
Really, i suggest you watch Sabonis in his prime. He was the most skilled passing center of alltime. 7'4 giant who could play anywhere from SF to center. His passing made the like of Divac look like a chump. Plus Sabonis had the ability to shoot the three or had that impossibe to stop hook in the post. Someone here has not watched the prime sabonis.
No. Wilt Kareem Shaq Dream Russell. I mean he isn't getting above those guys even if he was healthy. Then you have guys like drob, ewing, moses, etc.
I watched all his behind-the-back no-look passes while he was hobbling around in Portland. You're right, I never saw him in his prime because he was in Europe. Of course, European greatness doesn't always (if ever) translate into NBA greatness. I admit I'm a little biased because he was one of the first centers to consistently step out of the post and start launching 3-pointers. This trend basically brought an end to the days of centers dominating the paint and I believe the game has suffered because of it.
Agreed with your list except Mourning. I don't know if you have watched Mourning play. He's good but never dominant, especially on the offensive end. I remember the knock on Mourning was that his post moves were quite stiff and he wasn't much of a passer out of post. Mourning also had a history of choking in the playoffs especially against other top centers, despite surrounded by a talented team. His career was also hammered by illness. I am not bothered to check the stats, but my eye test told me that Yao's a more talented and better player than Mourning. Mourning's game was Dwight Howard like with less success and accolades.
Offensively he was nowhere near yao i agree, but on defense Alonzo was an animal. Great, great, great low post defender.Aso a monster on the boards to.
I'm talking about his days in Europe, had that beast came to the NBA earlier, he would have had a HOF career.
^ Come to think of it, I think Yao's probably a little bit overall better player than Ewing as well, although obviously without Ewing's longevity. Everyone else on that list was better than Yao undoubtedly.
Just speaking hypothetically, had certain circumstances been different and had he stayed healthy enough to reach his full potential, he definitely had the talent to put his name in that discussion. But based on the reality (injuries, lack of playoff success), Yao is no where near the top 5. Although I do put him ahead of any current Center, you best believe that!
Not sure why you guys think Mourning wasn't "near" Yao offensively. His FG percentage was nearly identical over the course of his career, and his points per game ove his best 4-5 years look a lot like Yao's (averaging over 20 points per game). He averaged over 20/10 for 4 seasons...and he was a block machine.
