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Palestinians accuse Israel of annexing the West Bank

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Mathloom, Oct 18, 2012.

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  1. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    All the vomit you've spewed in this post doesn't change the facts about the state of Palestinian people.

    You can assume I'm having a meltdown. You can assume I'm a Muslim. You can assume that I have a personal connection to Palestine. These are all things a bigoted brain produces when solving social problems.

    They're all assumptions and the only utility of these assumptions is an insight into the way you think about people. "Must be part Palestinian", "Must be Muslim", "Must also be having a meltdown."

    Tell us more. You've already revealeved that you think the best solution for Middle Eastern countries is a military government led by an autocrat - the example you used being one of a military paid by your government and its allies.
     
  2. AroundTheWorld

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    And another Mathloom meltdown.
     
  3. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    Google "two state solution is dead." You'll find commentary from left and right, Palestinian and Israeli.

    Robert Wright from the Atlantic summarizes in a page, but also explains how the best way to save the two-state solution is to discuss a one-state one.

    Former General Moshe Arens

    Noam Sheizaf


    Palestinian leadership

    And even some of the founders of the peace movement

    How can anyone take Oslo seriously when the settlement population has DOUBLED since it began?

    The last government that did anything to honor the agreements was Olmert. Things have swung very right since. Olmert was very close but got hammered with charges of corruption (which he recently beat) but it effectively prevented any final negotiation from happening. That's also likely not a coincidence.

    Since then, settlements have expanded, and new laws have been passed to silence dissent and personal freedom.

    Oslo was championed by the Left 18 years ago and it now has little credibility with the electorate. Part of that is because they put all their eggs into the peace process basket, and as noble as that may sound, burnt them. When things like the Intifada happened and people panicked, the opposition was there to propose things like the security wall.

    Also when people started losing their unions and jobs, Labor found itself no longer having the monopoly on, well, labor issues. It effectively lost the working and middle class on bread and butter issues, which effectively gave a mandate to the right to decide other things as well.

    Likud came in to promise security and economic growth. They had to form a coalition with the settlers and ultra-religious and ultra-nationalists to do it, but for the most part, they delivered.

    Kadima was supposed to be some middle ground between the two, courting right-wing moderates and alienated working and middle class voters. It lasted long enough for Sharon to disengage from Gaza, but not long enough for Olmert to get Oslo back on track.

    Most of that party ended up being a home for some of Israel's most opportunistic politicians and other than Olmert or Livni, was never that popular with people. It still managed to win the last election, but as you recall, Livni couldn't form a majority coalition so...Likud is in and will likely win the next one next year.

    What is for sure, is that no one will win an election on a pro-peace platform unless it promises other key things the electorate has been demonstrating for, domestic concerns like rising housing and food costs, the crumbling education system, the tax supported welfare of the non-working ultra-religious and their military deferments, and so on.

    Most projections of a return to the 2 state solution would be either a new centrist party or the return of Labor, if at least to provide Likud with an alternative to it's ultra-right coalition partners. The only way I can see Netanyahu abandoning his coalition partners is if his job depends on doing so. At the end of the day, some think he'd compromise anything as long as gets to stay in charge.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    And from your post history, you and Izakdavid are not extremely passionate about Isreal. I guess the opposition being Muslim is sufficient for that.
     
  5. IzakDavid13

    IzakDavid13 Member

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    [​IMG]

     
    #45 IzakDavid13, Oct 22, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
  6. IzakDavid13

    IzakDavid13 Member

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    "IT WAS THE JEWS!!!"
    [​IMG]

    " You can assume I'm having a meltdown..." [​IMG]
    "...IT'S ALL BECAUSE OF THE JEWS !!!"
    ^ Touch it Mathloom, you know you want to...
     
    #46 IzakDavid13, Oct 22, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
  7. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Read more: http://www.thenational.ae/news/worl...-of-qatari-emirs-landmark-visit#ixzz2A7geB4BT
    Follow us: @TheNationalUAE on Twitter | thenational.ae on Facebook
     
  8. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Read more: http://www.thenational.ae/news/worl...-continue-building-in-jerusalem#ixzz2A7h3CKyl
    Follow us: @TheNationalUAE on Twitter | thenational.ae on Facebook
     
  9. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Read more: http://www.thenational.ae/news/worl...unded-scholarships-to-west-bank#ixzz2A7h9K9N9
    Follow us: @TheNationalUAE on Twitter | thenational.ae on Facebook
     
  10. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=288689
     
  11. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-...sit-to-gaza-end-the-blockade.premium-1.470901
     
  12. IzakDavid13

    IzakDavid13 Member

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    I pray that one day the Palestinian people, People of Israel and their neighbours can work in harmony to produce a better standard of living for the entire area. First thing is both sides have to put down their weapons, check their hatred for each other at the door and then sit down like mature adults to work on a plan for future generations to benefit from.

    I hope that my grandchildren will only ever read of the Arab vs Israel conflict in the history books, and never again in a newspaper.

    Take a look at these pictures. Can you tell me which one is a Jew, and which one is an Arab.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    ...they don't know either, who is a Jew or who is an Arab, yet it is these little ones that are suffering and paying the price for the hatred exhibited between the grown men and women on both sides of the fence.
     
  13. across110thstreet

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    ummmm, I only see two posters having a so called "meltdown" here.

    and Mathloom certainly isn't one of them
     
  14. AroundTheWorld

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    Keep trying.
     
  15. Daedalus

    Daedalus Member

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  16. IzakDavid13

    IzakDavid13 Member

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    When America builds a wall, it is called border control, when Israel builds a wall, it is called EVIL! :rolleyes:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    To pull the rug from under you, it's not about America and Israel. These terms are used by people such as yourself to apply adversarial labels to people. It is also not about evil, since the mention of a word like evil implies that the opposing side must be good.

    It's Israeli government policy and American government policy that are terrible.

    I've been pretty clear that both of them are terrible. I've also been pretty clear that it's not only the foreign policy that's terrible, but their domestic policies as they apply to their own citizens are terrible as well. Domestic and foreign policy are invariably connected, the biggest example being funneling Americans towards class warfare due to alleged lack of resources to aid all classes, all the while refusing to even rationally discuss the 50%+ of annual budget going to the military industrial complex where resources have less oversight, less scrutiny, so on. Essentially, that's the part of Americans' lives where they have dramatically less freedom to choose but is disproportionately causing most of their problems and the least of their solutions.

    Your characterization of Israel as evil is degrading and a complete fantasy which you are applying to people on this board. It implies that all the people and all the government is evil and the opposition is inherently good in its totality.

    Where a country wants to continue its policies while not dealing with the reaction, it builds a wall to protect itself and to cage in the people it's attacking. It is only your overall ignorance or ineptitude which has made you choose such a brilliant example which legitimizes the very views you are trying to mock. Both of those walls are sitting on conquered land. Both of those walls are built by the military power to isolate the much weaker power. Both of the much weaker powers engaged in actions deemed illegal by the military power. Both of those walls have people living a far better life just inside vs just outside, or vice versa depending on how you see it. Both of the governments of the weaker side have been infiltrated by the more powerful side and therefore serve their own people only as a secondary duty. Both of the more powerful sides have had to absorb citizens from the weaker side which are now being treated as a threat by their right wing governments. Virtually all of the ability to resolve these conflicts lie in the same hands.

    The main difference is that America does not need anyone's permission to do anything. Mexico, Palestine and Israel all need America to do anything significant, and that's by American policy design, not by freedom of choice.
     
  18. AroundTheWorld

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    Fanatical propagandist Mathloom at it again, sitting on his ass in the UAE, getting paid with money from a dictatorial government that brutally exploits foreign workers and at the same time having the nerve to call Democratic Western governments "terrible", pointing fingers he just pulled out of his butt at everyone but those who shoot rockets at Israeli civilians and who teach their children at a very young age that "infidels are dogs and pigs who should be killed".

    Why is he so fanatical?

    Oh right - he has been taught the same his whole life.
     
  19. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Israel built a wall outside their official borders, in disputed territory. I don't think it would have been controversial otherwise.
     
  20. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    I carry zero responsibility for UAE government, they set their policies completely independent of me. In fact, the majority of my job revolves around enforcing US/UK policy decisions adopted by the UAE government under basically a photocopy of England/Wales law for mostly international companies. But nice try. It seems everytime you're starting to look like a war-mongering extremist, you bring up the topic of my government to play on what I can/can't say, what people here don't know, and what you know very well as a lawyer who has visited Dubai several times. This is getting old.

    If arguments against one's nationality were valid, we should ask why your country is supplying nuclear-capable submarines to the only country which has nukes in the otherwise nuke-free region. Perhaps using your own defunct argument style against you is the key here. Let's hear it. Are you going to sit here and tell us that your country is mitigating a 40-year old alleged Iranian nuclear threat by arming the country which is the very reason for the corrupt Iranian government seeking nuclear technology in the first place? Brilliant. Germans will fall for anything it seems, as history has witnessed.

    Should I post some selective pictures of your neo nazi protests? Or the alarming number of mosques they've set on fire? Or the serial killing spree they have gone on? Or the collusion of your intelligence agencies with them?

    Shall we instead focus on the UAE labor force whose conditions have improved more over the last 2 years than ever before, a cause which I have advocated on this board, publicly and in *wait for it* my government office which you characterize as being the darkness of the world?

    Trust me, you will have ZERO success implying that I somehow have any hand in the conditions of the UAE "unskilled" labor force, especially since I am actively involved in improving those conditions through legal means.

    It shocks me that you use the same BS arguments which would work best against you in a propaganda-laced discussion. Your country engaged in the holocaust after willingly electing Nazis, it invented modern-day propaganda methods, it continues to harbor neo nazis in its politics, and is currently experiencing an alarming growth in neo-nazi ideology and crimes.

    Believe me, stick to the topic it's better for you. You will still look like a douchebag with a silly argument, but you will look more like a douchebag by playing these silly AND irrelevant games.
     

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