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[seriously] On the fence...persuade me

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by heypartner, Oct 19, 2012.

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  1. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    I like to think I'm intelligent, but really i'm just a nerd... maybe not up on all the topics like D&D. But I've read a few threads here in the last week, so that's helped. I just work, walk my dog for hours, keep up with shows and play bridge. And this is off-season for the Rockets! (I had to look up the Libyan thing...lol)

    but I'm still on the fence.

    My "likely to vote" stance right now is

    President Obama is not too bright
    Governor Romney seems like a puppet

    Maybe I should just vote with my family on their most important issues.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    And to add, I'm voting in the swing state of Colorado (not Texas).
     
  3. Raven

    Raven Member

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    Obama will try to avoid war with Iran. Romney hungers for it.

    Obama will (obviously) keep health care reform, including the mandate which forbids insurance companies from denying you coverage if you have a pre existing condition.

    Obama will nominate pro choice judges. Romney will nominate judges that are hostile to reproductive choice.

    Obama will push for higher taxes on the rich, using that capital to lower the deficit or for jump starting our economy. Romney will protect every tax loophole the rich enjoy.

    Obama will pursue a pro science energy policy. Romney will gut any program which threatens to lower profits for the oil and coal industry.

    I hope that helps.
     
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  4. meh

    meh Member

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    I think in the end, IMO which way you vote should depend mostly on your earning power, and overall wealth. If you have a lot of the above, you should vote for Romney. And vice versa with Obama.

    Social issues like abortion or gay marriage I feel like have always been more about scoring points with voters rather than stuff politicians actually do. But I truly believe Romney will repeal Obamacare, lower taxes for the wealthy, etc. that will truly take Reaganomics to a whole new level.
     
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  5. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xIraCchPDhk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
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  6. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    I don't believe it for a minute. Obama's just as likely to go to war with Iran as Romney, and I don't think either will be all that different on this issue. Romney has to stake out the relatively more conservative position because he can't very well say "I agree with the President here", for better or for worse, and the American public has enough sense to understand that Iran nuclear weapons = VERY BAD, even if it's for the completely wrong reasons(Iran nuking Israel?hahahahaha.) Romney hasn't gotten this far without being to gauge the mood of the American people, and for better or for worse, they don't want war. I also agree with Romney that capability rather than the actual bomb is a much bigger problem.

    As I said during the debate - remind me which candidate's been the one talking nuclear again, aka. the realistic non-carbon source of energy and not the bullcrap that is solar and wind?

    Anyways, I'll state that while I think Obama will make a decent president which he has been ( and I definitely disagree with not too bright), Romney will be better. He has good leadership background, can deal ( I think discounting Massachusetts because of a bunch of stump speeches is inherently silly) with both the Democrats and the Tea Party nutjobs, and will reduce government. I definitely don't believe that he'll be the radical ideologue that Democrats try to paint him as.

    That said, hey, could you describe exactly what you mean by Romney as a puppet? I'm guessing you mean that you think he's a puppet of the big corporations or something like that?
     
  7. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    A nice synopsis for low information voters.
     
  8. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    You don't get to be president by being stupid. Even Bush was phenomenally intelligent. In politics, people can make smart people look stupid because every word you make is being recorded and can be taken out of context.
     
  9. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    Use the 'Am I better off than 4 yrs ago test':

    - Healthcare costs are up
    - Food prices are up
    - Gas prices are up
    - your taxes are up (Obamacare)
    - unemployment is up
    - average income is down
    - welfare recipients is up
    - food stamp recipients is up
    - the deficit is up

    If there are less people employed (as a percentage) and the ones that are make less and everything costs more, then it stands to reason that 99% of Americans are worse off than they were 4 years ago.

    Ignore the stupid platitudes like 'Romney hungers for war with Iran'. That's an awful and pathetic statement.
     
    #9 tallanvor, Oct 19, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  10. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    If you want economic policies that favor giving more breaks to the top 1% then Romney is the guy.

    If you prefer policies that might be more favorable to a larger percentage of Americans then Obama is your guy.

    When it comes to foreign policy Obama is more decisive and probably has shown that he has better instincts.

    Romney has really blown it even when talking about foreign policy or on foreign trips to places that are predisposed to being friendly to American politicians like London.
     
  11. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    1/3 of the list isn't true
    1/3 of the list has nothing to do with Obama and is the fault of an obstructionist congress
    1/3 of the list is Obama's fault only on equal part with congress
     
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  12. Bleeding Red

    Bleeding Red Member

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    Don't focus on what the candidate say because it can be misleading. Instead focus on the party's strategies which has been consistent. So which party policies is better direction for you, family, and most of all the country? Go through each issue and research the party's position on it. The candidates are just a representatives. If you deciding on the candidate then ask who do trust more to run the country? Who has more character and integrity?
     
  13. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    You should probably just abstain.
     
  14. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Romney completely outclasses Obama in terms of both intelligence and accomplishments. It's not close.

    Obama has had his shot, and the economy has not responded to his efforts. Unemployment is still way too high.

    The definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results.
     
    #14 bigtexxx, Oct 19, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2012
  15. jopatmc

    jopatmc Member

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    The economy is the single, most important issue in this election.

    If you are a high-income earner (over $250,000 income), then vote for Romney. Obama does not like you. He does not want your vote. He wants to raise your taxes.

    If you are poor or middle class ($0 up to $249,000 income), then you'll have to decide what you believe in. If you believe in raising taxes on the rich to even the scale and if you believe raising taxes on the rich and the government offering you more free stuff like Obamacare will make this economy get better and will make your life better...then vote for Obama. On the other hand, if you feel that your cost of living has increased tremendously over the last 4 years and you feel that the government does a poor job with the tax money we give them by wasting it on projects and programs that benefit just a select few and they hinder economic development with ridiculous rules and regulations that keep employers from growing and hiring people like yourself....then vote for Romney.

    And if you think your vote is really important and you want to make a huge statement to the establishment...that you hate the whole thing and you want to throw out all the bums....then vote for Ron Paul or Gary Johnson or write in Jesse Ventura or somebody else that you feel like matches your core values.
     
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  16. kpsta

    kpsta Member

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    Which Romney outclasses which Romney? The Governor or the Presidential candidate? I do understand that they get confusing sometimes, but please try to be specific. Your hastiness to make a point signifies some sort of desperation on your part.
     
    #16 kpsta, Oct 19, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2012
  17. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    OK...let's do it. Most of you know that I work in IT during the day and play blues music at night, so here goes:

    Daytime:
    -I've got the best day job I've ever had. Got it two years ago.
    -I make more money during the day than I ever have

    Nighttime:
    -I make more money with my music than I ever have (gigs, CD sales, digital downloads)
    -I get more gig offers than ever before, because there are more clubs booking blues bands in Houston than ever before

    Other:
    --I've made back (and more) everything that I lost in my investment accounts from the Great Recession
    --My home value has regained (and more) everything it lost from the bursting of the real estate bubble

    In short, personally, I am much better off than I was 4 years ago. I know there are people out there hurting, and I consider myself fortunate. I will be voting to re-elect the President. I do not agree with everything he has done, and I am disappointed that he has not kept some of his promises from 4 years ago, but I do believe he has done a decent job overall, and I do believe he is the lesser of two evils when compared to Governor Romney.
     
  18. Major

    Major Member

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    Everyone here seems to be telling to vote based on what's important to them. Why don't you instead tell us what issues are most important to you?
     
  19. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    heypartner, if you know someone from Massachusetts, talk to that person in some detail about Mitt before the election.

    Given what was said in the primary season, and given Romney's radical choice of running mate, the election for me is a referendum on a fairly radical right-wing agenda: do we want to return to the Gilded Age in America? The time of flimsy to non-existent workers rights, incredible income disparity, and an "everyone for himself" mentality (*him* is intentional, given the inequalities that women faced in the earliest 20th century.) The Republican who started to address these issues (Teddy Roosevelt) is soooo far to the left of melba-toast Obama that today's GOP would burn him at the stake for high treason.

    In the end, I just have a problem voting for people who want to run government when they don't believe in the collective potential power of government and cooperation. Period. I guess I'm a social contract kind of guy. So I actively vote against the current GOP kind of cynicism, even though in former years I have voted Republican, and have voted for Republicans in California and San Francisco.

    The CCCs, the moonshot, our victory in WWII: these were all achieved with the collective power of working together. Not a **** you, take care of your own self mentality.
     
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  20. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    I don't know how any logical person with a university level economics background could examine the Romney Ryan proposals and think they make sense or are likely to be successful.

    They simply don't make sense, and it's a matter of fact, not opinion, and the empirical evidence is overwhelmingly against them, and that's another fact.
     

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