Romney: OK for employers to influence employees' votes

Or better yet, be part of a protected category, find cause for discrimination/implicit threats in the email in question, and bring that s**t all the way up to the Federal appeals system, if not the Supreme Court.

 

What if a union told all its member to vote for someone would you feel the same way?

 

What's really comical is you comparing showing up to late to work which is typically something that you can get disciplined for with exercising your Constitutional right to vote. Nice.

 

Don't cross the union.

 

You do know that members of a union can FIRE/demote the Union head right? If the Union members don't want the head to indorse a politician they tell the leader whom they elected.

 

yes, bring on any and all political speech (all speech really), the more the better, can never have enough in a free society

 

BS. Freedom of speech does not allow you to bribe or threaten people to get them to vote for your candidate. That is not protected speech; no more than if the local Black Panthers told you if Romney became President your house might burn down.

 

What's the problem. You can just move to a different house. FREEDOM1!!!11!!

 

Cool Story Bro.

I worked as a temp for Bain Capital for a little while in 1994 when Romney was running against Ted Kennedy and while I was never told to vote for Romney there were Romney for Senate bumper stickers and signs all over the place.

 

I don't normally comment anywhere on politics internet or not, and if i make an effort to conceal my allegiance to any particular party or candidate.

But I'm breaking my rule, something I dont take lightly. Two Reasons. I feel like everyone here is a big rocket fan so i can assure myself that anyone who will read this has at least something in common with me. Also, I have kept this contained and this particular issue is grating on me so I've just gotta let it out.

This story isnt about me, its about my dad. I think it might be more effective if told from his first person perspective, but he's definetly not the type to complain and you would be upset with me if he knew I shared any of this. In fact I dont even know if hes aware that even I know much of these details. But I feel Its not irresponsible for me to pass any of this on, I spend everyday with my dad, he is my best friend, we not only work together but share common hobbies like watching rockets games.

My Dad is a 56 year old, white, high school dropout. He's been married for 20 years and has 3 children. If you met him you would probably assume he was educated certainly not Ivy league, but no one would mistake him for stupid. You probably also would not consider him an extravagantly wealthy man, he drives a 2004 ford excursion, a very nice car but not extravagant. He is a homeowner, who lives in a 4 bedroom 4 bathroom house in Seabrook built in 1978 with a remodeled kitchen and master bath. Iphone 4, 50 inch hd tv, gets rockets tickets, can take whole family to pappasitos etc etc, basically he appears to be your typical boring "rich white suburban dad"

He would call himself a "small business owner". I will not place that label on him, because there is no consensus on what that really means. President Obama is a major supporter of small business, quick to let us know that small businesses account for 50% of private sector jobs and refers to them as the backbone of our economy. But he also makes it clear that even "Donald Trump is a 'small business'", and that guys like Donald Trump dont need tax cuts, they can actually afford to help out "the rest of the folks". "a bunch of millionaires and billionaires" is I believe how he put it in the first debate. He has and will continue to issue tax cuts that help 97 PERCENT of small businesses that make less than $250,000 a year, NEARLY ALL OF THEM. My dad's business makes more than that, I want to tell you about about one of the millionaires and billionaires in the other 3%.

My dad owns a company that makes fire-r****dant clothing. If you work in a plant around Houston there is a semi-decent chance you wear a coverall made by his company. He has owned this business for almost 20 years now. Before that he was a sales representative for a variety of manufacturers in the safety industry. One of the companies he represented was a small FR clothing manufacturer we'll call them Gator Suits, he thought they did good work at a fair price and it was a fairly easy sell for him. He noticed once his commission was late, called the owner of Gator Suits to ask for his check. He was informed that they would be closing, the owner had other more lucrative businesses and Gator Suits had become a waste of his time and money. My dad was obviously concerned, 40 women worked at a sewing factory in Lousianna for Gator and they would all lose their jobs, I'm sure he was more worried about losing his commission though. At the end of the day my dad really only cares about himself and his family. At 36 years old he took his life savings (which of course wasn't much for a former highschool dropout with 2 young kids) and a home equity loan and told Gators employees to stay at the factory, to keep working. He had enough money left to cover payroll and fabric for maybe a few months but he believed in the company and himself. He changed the company name to, lets say.. Trump Workwear and embraced the risk head on.

2 decades later and Trump workwear is somewhat of a success story, growing substantially. That first factory has been closed, but 3 have opened in its place. Trump workwear employs 185 people in Lousianna and Texas. All but 7 of which are female. Many are mininum wage and the average salary is not much more than 25k. Taxable Income in 2011 was 5k within $400,000 and the tax bill ended up after deductions exemptions and such being 5k withing $100,000 for an effective tax rate of around 25%. $300,000 is alot of money to take home in a year theres no doubt about that. Its a low margin business, theres alot of moving pieces and very long days, but ultimately I think he would tell you it has been well worth his time.

Obama is just going to let bush tax cuts expire, which to non tax payers or small tax payers like myself looks pretty much like just bumping up 5% on the wealthy. Its my understanding that certain deductions and exemptions are affected as well, but i have no clue what they are, either way it doesnt matter much if his effective tax rate is 30 or 40%. The mortgage wont change, personal expenses wont change, its not like he has a whole lot of personal excess he can really cut back on. He will just have less money to re-invest in the business, maybe take a few less customers and employees out to lunch or to games, maybe take a less aggressive stance on investing in potentially innovative sewing technologies, maybe run the AC a few degrees warmer. He will spend less, have less expenses to write off. If sales somehow remain steady even after cutbacks he will actually show a higher taxable income, but I can guarantee he wont feel any "richer". Im unsure how it all works, he claims higher taxes will make business harder, I dont really know if i believe that it does sound a little greedy to me. If it goes all to way up to 40%(doubtful IMO but for points sake bare with me) he will have to make 500k to keep 300k and will pay 200k. I dont know if cutting expenses down 100k is really feasible but I think he could come close without totally wrecking the company or laying off too many people any more cutting and Im sure the landscape of the company would have to change dramatically. Thats 100k more in tax revenue for the rest of us. I will say I can truthfully see how in theory this would help us balance the federal budget.

But then there was Obamacare. If a person is within 400% of the poverty level(most of Trump Workwears employees) they will be eligible for subsidized healthcare. Every single person hear loves the security of healthcare and every single person loves free stuff, if you deny that your lyin. But as we know nothings actually free, somebody does pay for it. How much will Obamacare cost Trump Workwear. Obamacare penalties only apply to companies with over 50 employees and the penalties themselves are waived for the first 30 employees. Employers are fined $2,000 per employee but the increases to $3,000 for any employee who purchases subsidized healthcare from a federal exchange. 185-30 x 3000= $465,000 in penalties.

$465,000

This is more money than he keeps, more money than he makes, and almost as much money as he would make if he cut all of his business expenses, $100k, to the bare bones. This is real, this will happen on January 1 2014. My Dad will have two choices.

Trump Workwear forges ahead, maybe the cut investments and increased morale of a fully insured workforce will offset eachother causing sales to remain steady. If they do he will be able to claim $35,000, which will only be taxed at a 15% rate allowing him to keep $29,750. Its not alot to feed a family of 5 but he could definetly make it work. Hopefully he would be able to sell the house quickly. He would certainly have to adjust to the idea that he was only contributing $5000 towards the federal tax revenue 95,000 less than he would have under the bush tax cuts. A troubling thought for someone who has watched the national debt spiral out of control. Of course he'd get free healthcare though. Well actually that would be another 3000, plus the 1000 max out of pocket cost for familes at 150% of the poverty level, which would bring his take home pay to $25,750.

or

Move 100% of manufacturing overseas. layoff nearly 175 americans. Probably make a little bit more money than before, and feel like he had sold his soul. Fail at his dream to make a quality affordable product right here in the USA. Unfortunately I would guess this is the option he would chose. 175x 22k a year is $3,850,000. Maybe those women would find other jobs maybe they wouldnt, who really wants to work that hard for so little money anyways. At 15% tax rate those women contribute $577,500 is federal taxes. My dad would contribute his 200 instead of 100 from bush cuts but the overall effect would be a $477,500 tax revenue decrease. Basically this is a choice between himself and his family or his country. What would you do? There is a 3rd choice.

LET IT BE SOMEONE ELSES PROBLEM--the new american motto
QUIT! Sell his company to a big corporation who will be faced with the same choice. Let them chose let them deal with the guilt. I wonder how that will pan out?

Lost in all of this is how hard my dad has worked to build this company, the times he's been sued unfairly, the emails that never end, the conventions he attended instead of my little league baseball games and birthdays. Lost in all of this is how caring and generous my dad has been, never asking for credit or recognition, "if we dont look out for each other than who else will". I fear my America is turning into Europe where people think, "I dont have to look out for others because thats what I pay the goverment to do". My dad is not greedy, I can tell you that first hand, no one who knows him would ever call him that. In this campaign however, him and hundreds of thousands like him have been demonized by the democrats as the face of greed. They tell you 50% of jobs come from small business, they dont tell you 50% of THOSE jobs come from only 3% of small businesses, a quarter of the private sector jobs. Obamas small businesses are 1 man graphic design companies etc etc, really really small businesses. Beacons of the American dream, commendable and entirely worthwhile ventures, but not true job creators, not the "backbone" of our economy.

Do you believe the 3% is made up of more Donald Trumps (who employs many more in his corporate ventures than his smaller companies like Trump Tower Sales & Leasing which has 20 executive level employees as opposed to the Trump Organization that employs 22,000 and meets no ones definition of a small business) or are there more are there more nameless fameless d-head Joe Bosses like my dad spead across the country. I dont know what other industries this is going to kill, but I can say definitively no domestic garment manufacturing company has a business model that can survive obamacare.

Obama will not help small businesses he will only help big businesses and the elite. January 1 2014 will be the biggest day of lay-offs in the nations history. More people will be forced onto the goverment dole, effectively guaranteeing more democrat voters. Taxes will continue to rise so our unemployed dont starve, and eventually the money will run out. If you make 30,000 or less the worst thing you could do is vote for Obama, you will get health care now but your odds of ever finding a higher paying job or a job at all will begin to rapidly decrease.

Soooo... My Dad is still under the impression it is illegal for him to even talk about the election with his employees and doing so could get him sued. So he wont. But if i were him I would, because if his employees vote Obama they will effectively be firing themselves.

 

the point is i believe employees deserve to know how the outcome of the election will effect the companies future plans if at all. It shouldn't be seen as voter intimidation it should be seen as corporate honesty.

 

It's voter intimidation. Spin it all you want.

 

I have a feeling this story will end up being scrutinized by folks with better knowledge of the ins and outs of the Health care reform act and it won’t hold up.

 

I'm sure the health of 400 said employees means a lot to you dad. A man of dignity would respect that.

 

In your scenario, the business owner made a choice not to offer health care to his employees for 20 years. Who was paying for the health care of his minimum wage employees for the last 20 years?

 

Me and you. I'd also like to ask if those said employees are mostly undocumented workers. I would guess, yes.