I don't see how they're related. I don't get off on doing weird, law-breaking, people-hurting stuff for enjoyment. I like watching sports, especially the Rockets. I like to eat hamburgers and waste time on this message board. I would like to have more money of course, but I don't exactly spend my days plotting bank heists and scamming old ladies. It might seem counter-intuitive, but self-preservation is a huge reason for living a moral life. At least for one such as myself who is not a genius nor ridiculously wealthy/powerful.
Your description here- is textbook sociopath behavior. I don't know if you really meant it, or are just trolling for a reaction. But yeah, if you mean it, you're a sociopath.
Wow. Honestly, this is the most disgusting, shameful thing ever posted in the history of CF. I feel embarrassed for you just reading this.
I think it depends, but in most cases, yes ethics is preferable to loyalty. Loyalty can get you burned if you're not careful about who and where you direct it to.
I really question whether some men have ANY moral fiber in their body. He realizes his actions are wrong, even dishonorable, yet he'd still execute them. Any code of conduct or frameworks of war established by nations are irrelevant. Imagine what happens if he's a private military contractor and doesn't even need to abide by the Geneva Conventions? Yes, what a respectable young man.
Some people may include loyalty as a major component of their ethical code. But if we are to treat them as separate, isn't it true by definition that Ethics should[ trump Loyalty? Ethics is about what you should do. People who choose Loyalty over Ethics are choosing to go against what they believe they should do, aren't they?
I agree with you completely. And you are right that loyalty can and probably should be a part of a moral person's code. The question was in regards to circumstances when they come into conflict - ie in some sort of situation in which if loyalty wins out, you would make one decision, but if ethics wins out, you would make the opposite decision.
Aren't there a ton of themes in culture that revolve around some sort of "protect the person you love over the world" type of thing? If that by definition qualify as sociopathic, then there are a lot of sickos in this world. And I guess I would be one
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." - Mark Twain
This encompasses much more than protecting a loved one- And even in your sister protecting example, your help depends on their being little chance on you getting caught. I can't think of any culture that teaches "protect your loved ones, but only if there's no chance you will be harmed."
Possibly, yes. But contradictorily, what you think you should do isn't necessarily what you should actually do. I guess I have an example for myself. I work in politics. While the person who I work under and I are in the same party, I am massively different from this person when it comes to actual political beliefs. As far as I'm concerned, ethics would dictate that I tell my boss to go jump in a fire and quit immeadiately because we are very different. But he is my boss and superior, and furthermore he has been very generous and kind to me - easily the best boss I've ever had. Consequently, it's out of that loyalty to him and a sense of duty that I work like a dog and do the best job that I can do.
We talking about work, family, friends, what? Changes. Got to be loyal to family. If your brother is an insane serial killer, you have to be ethical and turn him in, but you're also being loyal to him in a sense to get him help. For work, ethics mostly. So much of ethics is grey, so if you're being paid well and not doing anything technically illegal, stay loyal. But, if there's something that completly crosses the line, ethics trumps.
Protect the person you love over the world? Maybe, but usually it involves the person you love being innocent and deserving of protection. Choosing not to turn in someone who committed a serious crime like murder because you want to be "loyal" is basically just selfishness and, in my view, it is indefensible. No sympathy at all for the victim and his/her family? And if the person is a mass murderer who's crimes are on-going, but you still choose to protect him/her, then that yes I would characterize that as sociopathic.
So, you wouldn't say rob a bank or something that would greatly improve your situation if there was a 100% chance you would not be caught? I would strongly consider it.
