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Obamacare Already Having Adverse Effects

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Rocketman1981, Oct 18, 2012.

  1. Rocketman1981

    Rocketman1981 Member

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    What are you his boyfriend? He can defend himself.

    The restrictions on doctor licensing go beyond international physicians as these groups are limiting on new Medical Schools being built in the US and the accreditation process for Carribbean type schools. The AMA etc. has failed as we have a shortage of physicians which in any case has propped up physician salaries to astronomical levels relative to their worth in society as risk takers. I'm not against licensing in a Milton Friedman type mindset, but the restrictions creates lack of supply and higher pay for people that truly don't deserve it and use licensure and accreditation as a method of using government regulation to artificially inflate their salaries. And then have the nerve to tell other businesses to sacrifice for the common good?
     
  2. meh

    meh Member

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    Taxes have dropped over the past decades by a significant amount. At the same time, only th wealthiest have become wealthier over this same period. And middle class is getting smaller with each new wave of cuts.

    So your belief is utter bull***t
     
  3. Rocketman1981

    Rocketman1981 Member

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    We had a prosperous 20 year period in the 1980's and 1990's that resulted in an overheaded stock market and economy for the 2000's combined with a severe financial crisis that resulted in the significant recession and the failure in certain faulty belief's that has been building for 30 years.

    This would have an adverse effect on the economy and especially those in the middle class that can little afford shocks to income and gaps between jobs and such.

    The rise of the ultra-global wealthy has to do with the globalization and ability for businesses within a short time to be worth significant amounts through technology, finance and other sectors. A majority of those people came from middle-class America which I believe makes this country great and we need steps to increase and maintain the middle class.
     
  4. giddyup

    giddyup Member

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    A guy on local talk radio this morning said that he worked for a major company with 100,000 employees. They had calculated that it was going to cost the company about $1500/employee/year additional premium. The solution?

    Lay off 30,000 employees.
     
  5. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    That's funny, every single small business owner I have talked with has said that the ACA would lower their costs.

    Of course, in my experience the small business owners that I know are far less hyperbolic and shrill than random storytellers on the radio.
     
  6. Major

    Major Member

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    Or they could just try the simpler solution and offer to keep the employees on for $1500 less in salary.

    Sounds like pretty stupid and whiny management.
     
  7. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    Pretty sure if they could cut 30k employees and keep the same productivity, they would have done that already. Cutting hours & raising prices are much more likely than massive layoffs.

    Edit: Or lower wages. Most probably wouldn't ask people to take less, but would pay new hires less, and be less likely to offer raises.
     
  8. Northside Storm

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    This is first time I have EVER seen the argument made that doctors are risk adverse, so they deserve less money than---entrepreneurs? Bankers? LOL.

    In any case, single payer can solve that in a jiffy.
     
  9. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    Small businesses (depending on your definition) aren't subject to insurance requirements, and can possibly receive a tax credit for paying for their employees insurance.

    Small business owners would really only see cost increases if A) They are subject to one of the additional taxes (unlikely), B) Costs of goods/services increase as a result (more likely).
     
  10. krosfyah

    krosfyah Member

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    It isn't an either or conversation. Don't buy the talking points. The real answer is somewhere in the middle (pun intended).

    The American middle class grew AFTER the industrial revolution ...not during when there is virtually no tax or regulations.
     
  11. QdoubleA

    QdoubleA Member

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    Yes, I am his boyfriend. You're insinuation that I am a homosexual should insult me further proves...you dumb, son.

    Go ahead and give me your highly educated opinion on why doctors deserve less pay and how they don't contribute to the common good.

    If you don't answer anything else answer this. I'm going to be saving a lot of lives in the future (when I'm not busy imposing regulation to bump up my salary :rolleyes:) maybe ever your sorry ass. My class has already raised and donated thousands to charity and helped build a school in Africa. Sooooooo, What is it exactly that you are contributing to society? Where is your sacrifice Rocketman1981. If you were born in 81 I mean surely you've accomplished something by now right? Yeahhh, didn't think so.
     
  12. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    There aren't a ton of companies with 100k employees so if some company was laying of 30k employees it would be all over the news don't you think?
     
  13. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    I agree I think the AMA is one of the reason why medical costs are so high. Half the doctor here are indian so why not make easier for doctors from india or other countries have an easier path for immigration.
     
  14. Rocketman1981

    Rocketman1981 Member

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    Should a standardized needed profession like medicine rank amongst most of the highest paid professions in the country at a time when healthcare costs have inflated 300% + since 1980 significantly more than the rise in inflation, wages or goods? A McDonalds Big Mac has fallen in price net of inflation, yet the quasi-regulated, inefficient practice of healthcare has not and licensing and credentialing of international physicians and new medical schools is a government regulation limiting supply of physicians and the AMA and groups are happy as its artificially inflates physician wages.

    I actually agree that a single payor system would be more efficient than the quasi-regulated nonsense we have today or Obamacare. But I believe a market based competitive system would significantly bring down the cost of healthcare though it would be in different (unequal) tranches as some people would have to use free clinics, some the McDonalds version and for those with the money a Ruth's Chris form. That would create competition, and better doctors would get compensated more for their patient care, rather than the socialized fee structure that just pushes doctors to see more patients and treat the illnesses rather than the people as they want to accumulate fixed doctor visit fees and procedure fees.
     
  15. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

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    I'm not here to argue about all the interrelated components of the act and how they may or may not help the economy and people over the short or long run, but I will say that this is not a Darden specific issue. Pretty much all restaurants of any size will run into this problem, with the solution being either (i) change in scheduling like Darden, or (ii) pass along cost increases to customer through menu price hikes, or (iii) combination of the above.

    This is not about Darden or another restaurant company making too much money as is via exploitation of workers. Restaurants are very low margin businesses, in an economy with little barriers to entry. Obamacare will result in increased costs for restaurants and retail.

    Another recent article on the subject: http://nrn.com/article/restaurants-mitigate-health-care-costs-cutting-hours
     
  16. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    Seems like Olive Garden is making a good argument for a single payer system.
     
  17. Rocketman1981

    Rocketman1981 Member

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    Aww..you guys are in med school together. That is cute.

    He has made ridiculous statements about others giving up or sacrificing income in order to better society yet is not willing to do so himself.

    Don't expect the system or others to implement and force something if you don't have the balls to do it yourself.

    You've raised and donated thousands to build schools. That is great but realize that most physicians are in their field to make money. That is not a bad thing but the inflated income is based on quasi-governmental systems that allow people to not care what the costs are and governmental subsidization of the entire industry and your paycheck. If physicians actually cared more about helping people then there would be many more free clinics and physicians doing things which they are not. Certain charities in Houston support these activities and clinics and such and we have so many volunteers at the number of clinics, even nurses will volunteer but the doctors are scarce.

    I constanly here this nonsense of doctors just trying to help people, but realize that you are in a government subsidized industry filled with people predominantly in it to make more money than the value of their services at the expense of expanding our deficit so you can make $250,000 a year over billing the government.

    You can do things differently and eventually with 70% of US GDP consumer consumption and of that 15% on healthcare (9% individual and 6% government) it will reach a tipping point. But there are not enough charitable doctors out there with free or subsidized clinics which is the reason why ER's are overrun and the healthcare system is such a joke. So don't give me this i'm helping the world nonsense either.
     
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  18. QdoubleA

    QdoubleA Member

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    "Them there doctors just be makin all that money and don't care about nobody!". Who the hell are you to say that doctors are only in it to make money? Your ignorant viewpoint is substantiated on nothing except your foolish opinion. Please, back up your statement with anything besides you know....your uneducated opinion. You failed to answer my question. What are you contributing?
     
  19. Rocketman1981

    Rocketman1981 Member

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    I've volunteered and funded a number of free clinics in Houston to localize it and not "with my class donated thousands to african schools" nonsense to make you feel better about yourself by buying a raffle ticket and calling it giving.

    There are volunteers from every field, even nurses but no doctors depite continual pleas from the Rotary Community. So as a medical student or resident, donate your time and prove us wrong.

    Rotary has Immunization Clinics that doctors were asked in the community and requested and none showed, as well as a number on the cities East End Initiative.

    You just reiterated my statement by feeling better about yourself because "your class donated thousands to a school in Africa". By saying your class you don't mean yourself and though in the studies in medicine and if you believe what AZADRE said you think others and businesses should give up profits and income to subsidize a field that you yourself though in it are not willing to give?

    You have the opportunity now to help and give back so don't give me this nonsense that its not about the money so you can feel better about yourself like a typical doctor going home in a Mercedes after billing the government or working for a hospital that bills the government and then feeling good that they are really helping people and doing it to give back.

    What nonsense. At least the fraudsters on Wall Street don't use the I'm really, really trying to help people and don't care about the money line.
     
  20. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    I have many med student friends... Unfortunately I rarely see them much... Probably because med school is probably the most tiring, time consuming school there is. I think its just you have more free time on your hands bro.
     

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