I have no ethics. I mean, I perform "ethical" deeds but do so more out of social necessity rather than actually being selfless. i.e. I would help someone if it doesn't inconvenience myself much to gain a favorable impression and possible future favors in return. The only thing that would affect my decision to make an unethical decision is whether or not I will be caught. Not by how unethical the decision is. For example, if my sister commits genocide for whatever reason, I will have no problem helping her escape the law if I know there's little chance of me getting caught.
I'm deeply interested in whether Kojirou will respond to this. However, from his background and past responses in other threads, I'm fairly certain many of us already know the answer to this.
Ha ha....just look at the number of blind partisans circle-jerking and pissing all over each other in D&D to get an idea of what the answer is for a lot of people around here. Ethics must trump loyalty or you end up with a simmering cluster**** of grab-assing sycophants being led around by the pied piper. That's my belief, but like everyone else in this screwed up world, I'm a screw-up that doesn't always follow that....but I try.
Depends on what kind of women and children they are, as well as who these superiors are. But, say, if I was a soldier, and Obama tomorrow gave me an order to attack an village of Pakistanis, or Afghans, or even French, I think I would carry it out. Of course, one can't know until you're placed in such situations, and I definitely don't think that such a course of action is honorable or something, but still.
Ethics > Loyalty. Whenever they go at odds with each other (which, sadly, can happen quite a bit), you have to go with what you think is right. Remember: loyalty is a two-way street. Those who are loyal to you should understand you acting based on an internal ethic.
really? as jstream was alluding to, loyalty is a subset of ethics they are artificial social constructs that have nothing to do with the natural world. whether that's a good thing or not i cannot say but surely they stifle our humanity.
No, but I have stopped my car and made the guy get out and pick up the McDonalds bag he threw out. Of course you do. If everybody did this..there would be a lot less crime in the world..only the "I don't snitch" crowd is stupid enough not too.
I think this brings up an important distinction, and it is a distinction I was NOT talking about with the initial question, and that has to do with military-type institutions. When you enter the military, you swear an oath which in effect replaces any personal code you may have, and you are bound by that, ironically by ethics. In other words, if you take your oath seriously, then when given an order, your only option is to carry out that order, and personal opinion is supposed to be removed from the equation altogether. Now whether or not, or how often, that actually is the case, I do not know. But that is a whole different discussion anyway. In reality, my question could be narrowed down a bit more to thinks like, what do we have a RIGHT to expect from others, when it comes to THEIR ethics vs loyalty? An example would be - your doctor. I believe you have a right to expect your doctor to be ethical above all else. And by this I mean, you have a right to expect that your doctor would not place his loyalty to, say, a perk-paying pharmaceutical company above his ethical obligation to you as his patient, and therefore NOT prescribe to you unnecessary drugs just so that he makes more money. That kind of thing. The whole thing about whether or not you would turn someone in for murder, etc etc, I think that is probably a pretty clear case of knowing what the right decision would be. Although, it is a little disquieting to see so many people say they would have no ethical problem with becoming an accessory to murder, simply because it was a friend or relative who did it.. odd. Anyway, the inquiry I think is most interesting when it centers more on things like professional ethics, especially when there may be multiple layers and levels of loyalties involved as well.
nero, your doctor and his relationship to big pharm, insurance companies and what not. it is a bureacratic nightmare. they have signed an oath which many ignore. it's important to trust your doctors and establish a real relationship where your care becomes "real" to them. otherwise just go to your local shaman.
Wouldn't this just be a conflict of ethics and greed? I don't think the doctor owes any loyalty to a pharmaceutical company unless he like made his big break there and they weren't giving him perks. A similar dilemma would be brand loyalty to say like Nike who may or may not use child labor to create their shoes.
