1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Muslim Cleric Accused of Blasphemy for Burning New Testament

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rocketsjudoka, Sep 27, 2012.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,168
    Likes Received:
    48,335
    Restrictions on free speech in Egypt including accusing a Muslim Cleric of blasphemy for burning pages of the New Testament and a reputed atheist held in custody.

    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/...s-new-testament-at-us-embassy?lite&ocid=msnhp

    Blasphemy or democracy? Egypt cleric tears up, burns New Testament at US Embassy

    Updated at 3:49 a.m. ET: CAIRO – An ultra-conservative Islamist cleric in Egypt faces charges of blasphemy after he allegedly tore up and burned copies of the New Testament at a protest in front of the American Embassy in Cairo.

    Ahmed Mohammed Mahmoud Abdallah, also known as Sheikh Abu Islam, is part owner of a private ultra-conservative Islamic TV station known as Al Uma and was participating in demonstrations against a U.S.-made movie denigrating the Prophet Muhammad that swept the Muslim world in the last month.

    Egypt’s General Prosecutor accused Abu Islam and his son, the channel's executive director, of insulting religion – in this case Christianity.

    The case is a rare example of the country’s often-criticized blasphemy laws being used against someone who allegedly insulted a religion that is not Islam. That trial is scheduled to begin September 30.

    Another case that has received less attention illustrates the quandary Egyptians find themselves in amid the explosion of protests and expression following the revolution that deposed President Hosni Mubarak in 2011.

    On Wednesday, a 24-year-old self-described atheist appeared in court to face charges that he was in contempt of religion by posting links to websites that promoted atheism.

    Saber Eyead Zaki also allegedly posted the link to the controversial video that has triggered global protests known as the "Innocence of Muslims" on his Facebook page.

    Egyptian human rights organizations have say that Zaki has been tortured and was being held at an undisclosed location. His house was searched without a proper warrant when no one was home, they contend.

    A video posted online shows the moment he was taken into custody – a mob hurls insults at him and try to attack him as he is being whisked away by police.

    As these simultaneous trials show, even sharing an idea is now enough to land you in jail in Egypt. This may seem a contradiction – given that many Egyptians cite the explosion of free speech, alongside the right to protest, as a major gain of the revolution.

    So the key question many Egyptians face is: Does more media and the right to protest mean freer speech?

    The trials also are the latest examples that the government is taking a zero-tolerance approach to those who would question or criticize religion, let alone mock it and insult it.

    Traditionally, this has been a one-way street, with most of those being tried cited for insulting Islam, including famed Egyptian icon and actor Adel Imam. Most insults to Christianity in Egypt have gone unpunished from references in media to derogatory and inflammatory comments made publicly.

    The two cases, along with others since the revolution, have really challenged Egyptians definition of free speech and whether the legal system in Egypt is capable of defending the right of people to express themselves freely especially when it comes to the issue of religion.

    Perhaps the biggest challenge to come is whether such limitations will be enshrined in the forthcoming constitution.

    Many are already ringing the alarm bells that the new constitution may enshrine restrictions on free speech rather protecting it. If so, many Egyptians will undoubtedly feel that perhaps the one gain the revolution produced in the short run was merely an illusion.
     
  2. Burko

    Burko Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    690
    Likes Received:
    76
    If I burned a copy of the Da Vinci Code, would it be a problem?

    Burning fiction books shouldn't be a crime.
     
  3. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,281
    It's obvious that this is done to pave the way for persecution of "offenses to the Quran or the Prophet". Prosecuting a Muslim first is just the way to do it.
     
  4. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    21,112
    Likes Received:
    22,573
    The Egyptians that protested from start to end in the name of freedom are not represented by Morsi. They hate his guts.

    Let's see how Morsi reacts to this. I think he is going to use this as an example of equality - i.e. see, blasphemy laws are applied to all religions.

    Also, an Egyptian Copt's 6 yr sentence was upheld today for anti-Islam facebook posts.
    http://www.montrealgazette.com/news...ians+6year+prison+sentence/7308285/story.html
     
  5. Roxnostalgia

    Roxnostalgia Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2003
    Messages:
    3,166
    Likes Received:
    524
    Right. But Webster's Dictionary...
     
  6. larsv8

    larsv8 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    21,663
    Likes Received:
    13,916
    Religion seems to be such a horrible thing.

    Sure hope the good it brings outweighs all the terrible things done in the name of "God"
     
  7. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    45,954
    Likes Received:
    28,048
    I suppose this form of blasphemy isn't punishable by moblike stoning or death?

    Half Christin warrior Barry needs to send a hellfire missile up his ass pronto.
     
  8. sammy

    sammy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2002
    Messages:
    18,949
    Likes Received:
    3,528
    Muslims are taught at a very young age to respect all three holy books. In fact, you have to do wudhu before touching the words of either books...technically speaking. Burning the other 2 books is outta line.
     
  9. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    21,112
    Likes Received:
    22,573
    You know when you guys are really going to freak out? When you finally discover that burning a Quran is one of the sharia-recommended ways of disposing of a Quran.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    101,064
    Likes Received:
    103,494
    Egypt has had and enforced anti-blasphemy laws for a long time. This is not paving the way for anything.
     
  11. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

    Joined:
    May 15, 2000
    Messages:
    28,028
    Likes Received:
    13,051

    par·a·noi·a

    noun
    1. Psychiatry . a mental disorder characterized by systematized delusions and the projection of personal conflicts, which are ascribed to the supposed hostility of others, sometimes progressing to disturbances of consciousness and aggressive acts believed to be performed in self-defense or as a mission.

    2. baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. droopy421

    droopy421 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,280
    Likes Received:
    184
    [​IMG]

    Approves this message.
     
  13. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,281
    Baseless?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_Egypt

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Copts

    Educate yourself, kid.
     
  14. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    45,954
    Likes Received:
    28,048
    Are you talking to us or the angry mob who calls themselves Muslims?
     
  15. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    21,112
    Likes Received:
    22,573
    The angry mob knows. They know these little minor details more than anyone else. In fact moderates are highly critical of those people because they tend to worship the minor details (how long should your clothes be, how much hair is ok to show) and gloss over the core principles such as the fact that the Prophet's primary message was his/people's freedom to believe what they want to believe without compulsion.

    I was talking to those who think all the rage is about burning a Quran, be they Muslims or non-Muslims.
     
  16. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,281
    Are you saying Muslims are lying about the reason they are outraged?
     
  17. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    21,112
    Likes Received:
    22,573
    Is Michael Douglas outraged just because he couldn't get breakfast?

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-eREiQhBDIk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  18. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,281
    I don't think that Michael Douglas' anger and outrage is justified.

    Are you saying that the Muslims who are outraged are crazy psychos?
     
  19. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    21,112
    Likes Received:
    22,573
    That wasn't your question and that's not my response. I didn't say his outrage is justified. I didn't say the violent actions of protestors are justified either. In both cases, my argument is to the narrower point that the trigger point of these actions does not constitute the complete rationale for why these actions happened.

    It is illogical to be obsessed with hearing that these actions are not jusified. No one supports the violent actions. Stop acting like it is otherwise. There are more specific areas where we should focus our attention to resolve these issues.

    Whether Muslims should protest is none of our business as long as they stay within the confines of the law. I can say it is unethical, but that's just my opinion and they still have every right to go outside and scream about it

    You asked if Muslims are lying about being outraged. They are not lying. They are outraged about it if they are out there showing it, but that doesn't mean that this movie is the only motive for being out there. The media abuses that idea - that this whole thing is purely about the movie. It is not. There are deeper issues. It is a bag filled with grievances which got too full and the last one caused the bag to tear open.

    I gave you a clear case where a person is outraged and the tipping point is something small (in this case, no breakfast). Does that mean that Michael Douglas held up a store at gun point because they are not serving breakfast? Yes. Does it mean that the only reason Michael Douglas is over-reacting is because they do not have breakfast? No.

    A lot of Muslims in the world are at the tipping point and therefore they reacted strongly to this. Muslims in my country are not at the tipping point - they are mostly well off, well educated, and even if they hold strong views towards the video the most extreme thing they will do is post their disdain in chats and facebook and twitter. Same goes for Qataris. Same goes for American Muslims. The people who are out there with violence and hateful messages are mostly not well off, insecure about their future, rely on poorer sources of information and a weaker educational background to analyze these events.

    Sure, this cycle keeps repeating itself. As long as you choose not to acknowledge what is going on, a peaceful solution is unlikely. The Brotherhood is making mint by taking advantage of this - these are the values of Egyptians they say. Yeah right. The Egyptians who kicked Mubarak's ass out of his throne do not share those values. If we want Egypt to develop into a civilized free society, then we have to give the revolutionaries the spotlight, rather than constantly shine it on the moronic behavior of those who swooped in and hijacked Egypt's revolution.
     
  20. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,281
    Do you think Morsi is one of those who hijacked Egypt's revolution? That's what I understand from your long post.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now