If you can show where I am wrong, my mind will change. Truth shall set you free. My challenge to you was to look at all the verses so that you could research and come to your own conclusion...but anyway. 1. Google abrogation in Islam. 2. Do the research yourself...Others are usually wrong. The above 'explanation of the context' is so far off it actually hurts. Here have a link. http://quran.com/8 3. http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/a_new_quran/ ( a Muslim site... Not a Muslim hate site) 8:12. This verse - along with several ahead of it - was revealed in reference to the Battle of Badr, the first major battle between the Muslims and the Meccan pagans around 625 C.E. A little background is in order. After the Prophet (pbuh) and his followers were expelled from Mecca and migrated to Yathrib (now known as Medina), a city 300 miles to the north, the Meccans seized all the property of the Muslims that was left in Mecca. This was an act of open war. When the Prophet learned that a large caravan of the Meccans was coming from Syria near Medina, he intended to attack it. Abu Sufyan, who was leading the caravan, learned of this planned attack and sent word to Mecca for protection. His fellow Meccans sent an army, and they met in battle at Badr. The Muslims handily defeated the Meccans, killing almost all of the most important leaders of Mecca. ( I don't agree with all that is said, but this is from a muslim apologist point of view) 4. When doing research, look over both sides of the fence. It helps. You call this nice? Do you believe that the Quran in denying the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ, and in also denying that Christ is the only begotten Son of God, is both wrong and anti-Christ in its message? Do you believe that Jesus was a Muslim as the Quran states?
If I believed everything in the Quran I would be Muslim rather than Christian. I just don't hate the Quran, and don't believe it is dangerous. I believe that the beliefs you mentioned are different than those of Christians. Which makes sense. Because if Muslims believed all the messages of the bible as it was written in the bible, then they would be Christian rather than Muslim. So I expect they have different beliefs. That's what I expect. I'm not threatened by people believing differently than I do. In fact I'm going to do my best to do as Christ said and pull the trunk from eye before worrying about the splinter in my neighbors. I'm going to direct my energy in making sure I do my best to follow Christ's example and teachings, and realize that I can't and shouldn't try and control others belief. It's up to them. I'll try and worry about my own shortcomings when it comes to my religion, and not the shortcomings of others. I believe that's the Christian way talked about over and over again in the bible. What I believe in is the bible. That doesn't mean I have to hate Islam or any other religion. As far as the context I provided, you are right. That was Sura 12 not Sura 8:12. Either way I could go through and point out a different way based on the context to look at it, that would be at least as accurate as your way of interpreting the text, if not more so.
The challenge is still there if you would like to take it on, but the truth is that there will always be two sides to a story. I am biased in that I look at Islam from a Christian point of view, and I am not ashamed to admit it. But in saying that, I try to not let my bias get in the way of the facts. If I am wrong I will admit it, unlike some others on this board. Keep serving Christ FranchiseBlade, it is an awesome way to live.
I'm curious why you think your opinions are facts. When you are wrong (majority of the time), you just make excuses as to why an argument proving you wrong is somehow invalid. Earlier you said monarchs and other leaders distorted the message of true Christianity to pursue violence for political purposes. You don't use that same logic with Islam. You purport that what terrorists do is true Islam. That's just blatant hypocrisy. Now you'll come back with inane response about how you studied Islam and terrorists are the real Muslims while all the others are simply practicing the religion falsely. The only thing you've studied is websites that hold the same preconceived notions that you do. It's called confirmation bias, and you're completely oblivious to it. And it's obvious you have never read the Quran. If you had, then you'd already be questioning the logical inconsistencies within modern Christianity*. You'd also know that less than one percent of the Quran has to do with physical violence. *Why is there no mention of the trinity until the late third century? Not one of God's prophets before Jesus makes any mention of it. It's nowhere to be found in the Old Testament. *Why would an omnipotent being need to beget a son? That contradicts the concepts of omnipotence completely. "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone."
Show me where I'm wrong. Why don't you take up the Same 'Quran in context' challenge put to FranchiseBlade. I quote directly from what either the prophet Mohummad said or what Allah's instructions to man Through his prophet were. (on some occasions I have used the Hadith) I have never quoted a terrorist or terrorist organisation when dealing with any debates regarding Islam, to do so would be folly. In the same respect, I have asked people to provide scripture where Jesus Christ has instructed his followers to use violence and force. I HAVE AND I DO WHILST THEY ARE MUSLIMS, THEY ARE NOT THE 'REAL MUSLIMS', & I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT. ( oops caps lock...my bad.) I have just shown in the previous posts that I read both Muslim, Muslim apologist and so called anti-Muslim sites. http://quran.com/8 http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/a_new_quran/ Do these websites hold the same preconceived notions that I do? Would you like to check your facts regarding this statement? Again, throwing up anti-Christian arguments in a debate on 'why Muslims are so easily offended.' But what the heck... Question 1. Re: Trinity...start in genesis 1:1 read from there...you will find the mention of the God the Father, The Son and The Holy spirit. For the second question, first do some reading on the need of sacrifice for atonement of sin...when you get the basic understanding, let me know and I will fill in the blanks for you. I hope this helps. Edit: BTW...why do you think that Muslims are so easily offended?
182 murders related to racism in Germany from 1990-2011. Did you just try to compare neo-nazis and their violence to Muslim related violence? Wow...
Not at all. I think Germans are fine people. I'm just part-taking in the overlooked practice of posting pictures without expressing a view and attacking anyone who comments on them. So for example, to your comment I would say: NAZIS KILLED 6 MILLION JEWS AND ISLAMISTS DON'T KILL PEOPLE BECAUSE OF RACISM!!
The tattoo "artist" can't spell... Anyway - I find the guys you show in the pictures even more despicable than the Islamist protesters. The difference is - I have nothing in common with them except maybe - by coincidence - the same passport (if they even have one, they probably never got out of their village). There is absolutely nothing they do that I defend. I don't think they have any legitimate "grievance" whatsoever. You, on the other hand - you share an ideology with the Islamist protesters, you think they have a legitimate grievance, both they and you think of the USA as imperialists, you share a joint extremely negative perception of Israel, you are both offended by cartoons or Youtube videos supposedly offending your (shared) prophet, you want to see freedom of speech restricted (either by law or by self-restriction forced by threats of violence) - so there is a huge difference. I am not ideologically close to the guys you pictured in any way whatsoever - there is nothing they believe that I believe - whereas you have a lot of ideological overlap with the Islamists.
I don't know anything about Geller (other than her having a big rack, according to the picture above), but I don't think Wilders and Sarrazin are anywhere close to being Nazis. But nice try, Mathloom, Islamist propagandist, to take some time out of your day job at the DFSA to try and derail a thread about why Muslims are easily offended. I guess this thread must have offended you a lot.
I can't believe that you would go there! Really, NAZI photos? So tell me Mathloom... Who & what were the major inspiration behind Mein Kampf? Who were the German allies in WWII? MUSLIM NAZI SOLDIERS 1940 Damn, you should know your history mate. Did you realise that some of the passages in Mein Kampf are nearly identical to passages in the Quran, that Hitler's inspiration was Mohummad and Islam. Did you know that a great deal of Hitlers hatred of the Jews came from his understanding of Islamic literature and the Quran. Would you like me to show you the evidence and proof? Really, would you? Here is an unrelated picture... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In other news.... THE NSW ( in Austrlia) Premier Barry O'Farrell has asked the Family and Community Services Department to investigate the use of a young child photographed holding an sign calling for the beheading of those who insult the prophet. The mother did turn herself in to the police station early this morning. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Some excellent reporting and video images from Sydney Riots... http://www.news.com.au/national/probe-into-boy-holding-beheading-sign/story-fncynjr2-1226475238920 .
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Wow, no wonder you guys do this. It's so much easier and uses fewer brain cells than actually having principles or bothering about the truthfulness - if it's wrong, someone will tell me, if I'm not or no one tells me, then it makes you look bad! Just throw some **** at the fan and be obtuse about it. Googe two or three of the most controversial things about the person, copy the most controversial results here. Generate a stream of justifications, pick them apart. Who knows what's going on in this photo?
Ha! Ha! My wife is part aboriginal and I just came back from doing some self funded missionary work in Alice Springs! Nice little poem too, but indigenous history is taught in our schools now, and in the North of Aussie the indigenous language is taught in schools. In fact before every professional game, ceremony or school assembly we give a thank you to the original owners of the land...thanking the exact original tribal owners. And the film you posted is from the early 1980's!!!! Bwhahahahahahaha!!! A lot has changed in the last 30 years mate, maybe not in the Islamic countries, but over here they have. Keep digging mate, you've hit rock bottom...you may as well keep chipping away!:grin:
