U.S. ambassador, 3 American diplomats killed by protesters in Libya

I agree with that.

Do you see any cause for optimism? It seems like the same type of behavior keeps repeating itself.

 

The natural gas movement is a real initiative that i think is being talked behind closed doors among many of the energy companies...If we can find a way to tap in to that resource and use that as a primary energy source...we can perhaps move forward...

 

can we please change the title -- as it stands now, it suggests the murderers were justified due to "trolling"

very disrespectful of the dead

(but not surprising given the liberal thread starter)

 

This isn't complicated. This was a major crime, and whoever was directly involved should be punished to the full extent of the law. No one else deserves punishment for this. I'd be surprised if anyone on this board would say otherwise.

But there is also a precedent for this type of reaction, and we shouldn't be blind to that. At the least, one should weigh the likely negative consequences when they're posting offensive material on the internet against the positives that might come about from it, don't you think? It doesn't matter if rational people would not be provoked to violence by it, we must deal with the reality that there many irrational people throughout the world.

 

Calling the director an Islamophobe does not invalidate the film. A peaceful protest (or better yet, no protest at all) would have invalidated the film, but peaceful, Muslim, and protest are not three words that usually go together.

 

It's lamentable how quickly this became a political football in the presidential campaign.

Of course it wouldn't have happened. But, I don't think it's an elephant. Are you saying we should have let Qaddafi slaughter all those people in Benghazi and hold onto power so he can repress his people to avoid the deaths of 4 Americans?

Obviously, the people in the mob are responsible for their actions, though we don't know who they are. But while they have responsibility, it doesn't relieve responsibility from others who have influence on this mob. The Libyan government is responsible for having inadequate control, though it isn't very suprising considering what they've just gone through and what they're contending with. I'm sure they're regretting the hell out of it right now though because they could really use some help from the West. The fundies are responsible for always fomenting an adversarial relationship with the West. And the filmmaker is a damn idiot. Plenty of blame to go around and if even one of these parties did the right thing, this probably wouldn't have happened. But, you can pretty much count on humanity to not do the right thing.

 

Preach on brother. Perhaps more Americans like you, me and our fellow conservative brothers on this board keep on fighting, we will finally restore orders out of chaos.

 

Yes, you're so brave posting here on Clutchfans. YOU'RE AN INTERNET WARRIOR AND I SALUTE YOU. Now grow some balls and take it to the streets, hombre.

 

Like the guys in Libya? You think they showed "balls"?

 

No, not at all. But the transition from a dictatorship to a functioning democracy is often an ugly, drawn-out process. This just serves as a reminder that we shouldn't look at it with rose-colored glasses.

 

Right but also be careful what you wish for. Democracy is just a form. Substantively, there are much more than just having democracy. Entrenched interests, instatiable greed for power, culture traditions, history on and on they are all interwined. Regan, Bush-esque rhetorics like "beacon of freedoms" are too simplified and may just be cold war propagandas. Things like this happen for a reason and I believe there is no quick solution to it. Would Libya have been better off had Qaddafi not been removed? Absolutely not. What we are seeing is, as you said, things that were muted under Qaddafi's regime. Sooner or later, we will have to deal with them.

 

But you wouldn't say there is no limit to free speech, right? Expressing one's religious belief in a video is one thing, but mocking another's religion to provoke is another. I will draw a line there.

 

I don't like videos like this, but some of you guys who are criticizing the creator or quasi-rationalizing what happened are really disturbing me. If people are going to die if you let rock bands make music videos should we outlaw music videos? What about p*rn? Should we make p*rn illegal if crazy Christians start killing people who watch it?

There is no justifying or rationalizing what has happened here. It's simply barbarism. The people responsible are barbaric zealots and we shouldn't censor videos or make laws or guilt people because of the actions of those barbarians.

 

How do you define "mocking another's religion"? If someone posts an argument on why they think all religions are irrational, should that be censored?

 

So you are good with censorship of any movie, tv show, blog post, message board post, newspaper article, song, youtube video, etc. that offends anyone of a certain religion?

 

We've seen how far this "culture" has taken them in countries without oil money like Pakistan. A complete wasteland where the streets are lined with heroin junkies passing out crying about being a disappointment to Allah. Go ahead and practice religion, but you have to see it as more than a crutch for weakness and lack of reasoning ability.

We all have crutches to deal with life. Alcohol, women, fantasy novels, obsession with sports... but there's always a line when it goes past the point of being healthy.

Democracy doesn't work in these nations. UAE lucked into oil and imported slave labor to make themselves an attractive destination for MNC's. Malaysia's economic and quality of life turnaround was due a dictator who made Islam a low priority when rebuilding his nation. It's only after some form of stability and prosperity is introduced that a democracy where people have a legitimate say works.

The US needs to see this instead of feigning to expect resolutions from throwing around democratic ideals in an unstable, poverty rife environment that has no idea what's good for them.

 

Unfortunately there are many irrational people in this world, of all races, colours and creeds.

There is offensive stuff posted everyday on the net...Especially aimed at Christians and Christ.

Watch the video and tell me if there was any lies in it. The fact is we are not even allowed to mention the prophets name without reverence, it may be classed as an insult...punishable by death.
Granted the video was crude, very poorly made and more than likely ment to offend, but that doesn't excuse or justify the actions of this mob of lunatics who were involved in trespass, assault, desecration of the Flag and murder.

If now we aren't allowed to post video x, because religion 'c' finds it offensive, how long before video's y, z, a, b, and so on are deemed offensive to religion 'c' and also banned or legislated against?

I hate when Hollywood uses Gods name in vain, or uses Christ as a cuss word...should those video's be banned or not made?

Hindus love their cows should....you can see where this is going.

 

Thanks to the mods for changing the utterly idiotic thread title.

 

agreed. Thank you mods.

 

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article3512572.ece



Mob sets fire to factory and two houses; curfew imposed

Indefinite curfew was imposed in the remote Joga town of Mansa district in Punjab on Sunday when angry villagers attacked, set afire and razed a factory, after reports spread that the premises was used for cow slaughter. Two houses of factory owners were also destroyed. No loss of life has been reported.

Chief Minister Parkash Singh Badal ordered the suspension of district police chief S.S. Chahal for dereliction of duty.

Tension had been brewing in the area since Saturday after carcasses of about 25 cows were found near the factory located on the road connecting the headquarters of Mansa and Barnala districts. Residents had protested cow slaughter in the past too.

Led by activists of the Vishaw Hindu Parishad and the Gowshala Sangh, villagers gathered in the morning and broke into the premises of the factory, where carcasses of cows were lying and some animals were alive. The mob went on the rampage damaging the factory and setting ablaze the houses of at least two of those running the unit, Ajaib Singh and Mewa Singh.

The police had a tough time controlling the mob. At least four persons were reported to have been injured after the police resorted to cane charge and firing in the air. The violence was controlled only after extra forces were deployed and curfew imposed. Three persons have been arrested so far.

The factory, which ran on a leased premises, was originally used to crush bones of dead animals for supply to drug manufacturers. The protesting activists told journalists that the owners of the factory resorted to cow slaughter after the demand for crushed bones increased.

The Chief Minister, while ordering the probe, appealed to people to maintain communal harmony. Promising that those involved in the heinous crime would be dealt with severely, Mr. Badal said the government would not tolerate any attempt by anti-social elements to disturb peace.